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	<title>Comments on: Superman 2: The No Camp Cut</title>
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		<title>By: Checker222</title>
		<link>http://fanedit.org/8936/comment-page-1/#comment-11413</link>
		<dc:creator>Checker222</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 05:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fanedit.org/?p=8936#comment-11413</guid>
		<description>This was really strong, I dug it!

Honestly, other than the new effects, which are NOT flawless, but this is my definitive cut, awesome stuff!

9.5!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was really strong, I dug it!</p>
<p>Honestly, other than the new effects, which are NOT flawless, but this is my definitive cut, awesome stuff!</p>
<p>9.5!</p>
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		<title>By: Phlegmbot</title>
		<link>http://fanedit.org/8936/comment-page-1/#comment-11385</link>
		<dc:creator>Phlegmbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Nov 2010 02:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fanedit.org/?p=8936#comment-11385</guid>
		<description>p.p.s . BTW, this unfinished sentence in the above: &quot;Besides, the middle ending has a weird shot of Perry that seems awfully random. (Although you did a WONDERFUL job on the music in that middle one.) I also recommend, in Day 2 at the Planet, when Clark comes in the NEXT &quot; was just info I place elsewhere. Apologies for any confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p.p.s . BTW, this unfinished sentence in the above: &#8220;Besides, the middle ending has a weird shot of Perry that seems awfully random. (Although you did a WONDERFUL job on the music in that middle one.) I also recommend, in Day 2 at the Planet, when Clark comes in the NEXT &#8221; was just info I place elsewhere. Apologies for any confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Phlegmbot</title>
		<link>http://fanedit.org/8936/comment-page-1/#comment-11384</link>
		<dc:creator>Phlegmbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Nov 2010 02:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fanedit.org/?p=8936#comment-11384</guid>
		<description>There were a lot of wonderful things about this FanEdit. 

I should really re-watch my Donner Cut DVD to compare some of the stuff in the beginning and middle that I don&#039;t recall quite as clearly as may be needed for a good comparison, but, with that said, I REALLY enjoyed this.

I think the visual f/x and the overall style and pacing and editing were really incredible. This is a VERY strong version of Superman II, and I&#039;m terribly excited about seeing a final version of it with sound issues and hard cuts fixed. 

I&#039;m first going to list what didn&#039;t work and then what did. Please don&#039;t be discouraged by the many criticisms, this was very, very well done....

The first thing which stood out as a problem was the arrival of the 3 villains in &quot;Houston&quot; -- actually the small town out in TX somewhere unbeknownst to them. The confrontation between the villains and the local sheriff cuts off at an odd moment. I understand you added the sound of an explosion, to imply Zod had used his heat vision to blow them up, but it&#039;s not working. Consider bringing up the explosion sound and perhaps adding a small visual effect of an explosion in your aerial shot. Alternatively, I&#039;d recommend using the scene from The Booshman Cut and adding a blur (the lack of which was the only issue I had w/HIS version of this scene) to show Zod moving quickly to grab the shotgun. (I make the blur and explosion suggestions since you&#039;re clearly very good with the visual f/x.)

The rest of your version of this scene is also problematic -- it&#039;s all very random. They walk into a diner, then someone is tossed through the door, with no context. I get the idea of showing that they&#039;re causing havoc, but it still needs to all have context and flow like a real story. And these scenes do not flow. Also, keep in mind, in a movie, even a fast-paced movie, shots rarely last less than 3 seconds. And you have some bizarre quick-cuts that are amidst an otherwise slow scene. (A series of quick-cuts is different.)

Also, when the villains are fighting in the small town, we HEAR the news man before we SEE him. I&#039;d recommend reversing that. We need to know who that is FIRST.

We spend an awful lot of time w/Miss T and Lex heading north. While I enjoyed most of it, it really slows the pacing of the movie down. I recommend cutting some of the stuff in the balloon, on the ice, as well as outside and inside the Fortress. There&#039;s a reason Donner cut it. As a screenwriter myself, I can tell you when writing, the next thing you do is edit the script down. And, for each scene, you have to ask yourself &quot;What am I trying to impart here?&quot; and then boil that scene down JUST to that information. At the Fortress, the important aspects are: Lex finds the Fortress, Lex learns about the Phantom Zone villains. I&#039;m not saying you can&#039;t have some of the other things, but those 2 aspects should be your focus in all that.

Now, this one&#039;s gonna hurt a bit: most of what you did in Niagara Falls works. But placing the screen test scene into the actual final scene didn&#039;t, and let me explain why:
1. it&#039;s an important scene, the first plot point actually, and the visual f/x aren&#039;t quite smooth enough to NOT distract the viewer from what&#039;s happening. I understand, yes, Clark&#039;s hair and glasses change, but that&#039;s FAR LESS distracting than seeing Clark and Lois pasted into the honeymoon suite.
2. Clark never actually reacts to Lois. The Blank Bullets scene is the screen test that proved to Donner these two actors belong together. Why? Because they had INCREDIBLE chemistry. By using Lois from the test and Clark from the Lester movie, you have REMOVED the chemistry, b/c they are clearly not interacting.

BTW, I really enjoyed your establishing shot of the two of them in the suite from the outside but that lasts a bit too long.

You must, must, MUST remove the Mt. Rushmore scene. I despised it as a young boy, and it doesn&#039;t work now. Again, I recommend the Booshman cut: he placed the destruction of the Washington Monument on the TV screen in that scene. It&#039;s much stronger...and the line which follows (&quot;Thousands of hours to create...&quot;) still works.

There&#039;s an odd shot of a brick building when the sirens are sounding around The White House. That tan-colored building stands out, since everything else is, well, white.

Something weird happens when Superman is about to hand Lex over to the authorities outside the Fortress, but the sound is having so many problems there -- although for just about 2 seconds -- I can&#039;t imagine you&#039;re not aware of it.

The cut from Superman on top of the White House to being back in Metropolis is abrupt...and confusing.

The final thing on this list: you have 4 denouements. The movie ends 4x. Once when Clark and Lois leave the fortress, then again when Clark Kisses Lois at the Planet, then again in the Planet w/Pizza, then AGAIN at the Planet with Paris. I recommend cutting out #2; it&#039;s too confusing to go from DAILY PLANET - DAY to DAILY PLANET - DAY...again. So here&#039;s my recommendation:
Go from the talk up north and the balcony scene to the pizza conversation...the fact they give each other a look about him being &quot;super&quot; is terrific. (You may even be able to remove the balcony scene altogether. If you choose not to, I&#039;ve a recommendation about that scene below.) Then, instead of having Clark say &quot;good morning&quot; to everyone again, just have him walk into Perry&#039;s office. His outfit it ALMOST identical to the previous scene and, since we last saw him leave for a pizza, the natural assumption will be that he&#039;s looking for Lois to give her the pizza since he soon asks about her. (Go from &quot;Get your head out of the clouds&quot; to Jimmy&#039;s line.)

Besides, the middle ending has a weird shot of Perry that seems awfully random. (Although you did a WONDERFUL job on the music in that middle one.) I also recommend, in Day 2 at the Planet, when Clark comes in the NEXT 

Balcony recommendation: when Lois is dropped-off on the balcony, cut to him flying off after he puts his hand to her shoulder, b/c continuing to show how upset she is is meant to be a portent of things to come (i.e., a Super-kiss or him Turning Back the World), but since you&#039;re giving them a HAPPY ending, the long goodbye is awkward. 

Several sound issues at the start and the end (and a VERY hard cut between saving Jimmy/Lois and feed Miss Tessmacher to the babies you need to fix) I&#039;m assuming you&#039;re aware of and need to fix.

The good:
I&#039;m 99% certain you re-edited the opening of the film different from the Donner Cut, and I loved it. Wonderful way to remind us that he&#039;s ALREADY turned back the world, so there&#039;s no reason to have him do it again. 

I believe you also added a &quot;Lois?!&quot; from Clark looking out the Daily Planet window at Lois on a fruit stand. Also wonderful, and a major issue I had w/the Donner Cut. I&#039;m guessing you took it from the Jump in The Water scene in Niagara Falls. I also like how you re-did the pacing on the scene of Lois jumping out of the Planet window.

I&#039;m glad you didn&#039;t use the Otis &amp; Lex repairing the car escape. The hot air balloon is much stronger.

I enjoyed Lois and Supes in the Fortress. Good work there.

The villains attacking at the mall in Washington was brilliant.

I really liked seeing where Ursa got her ribbons (in the Oval Office). Again, I don&#039;t remember that in The Donner Cut and, as a kid, not knowing really bugged me.

People are going to get on your case about using &quot;Oh, Superman!&quot; twice in the big fight in Act 3, but I didn&#039;t mind it.

If there&#039;s any way for you to work your magic on some of the extended fight scenes, to make the f/x better, please do. It&#039;s still a nice piece of work.

Your actual FINAL scene is just wonderful. It leaves you wanting a Superman III. (Heh.) Seriously, great music edit there, great use of other unused shots. A really PERFECT end scene. 

Overall, I really liked this. My strongest recommendations out of all of the above: Fix the villains in the western town and fix the denouements. This was really a, dare I say it, stupendous piece of work! I&#039;m thoroughly impressed and looking forward to the final!

Congratulations on a great cut!

-PBot
p.s. if anyone can get a hold of ADIGITALMAN, I&#039;m desperate for his extended cut of Blazing Saddles. Thx!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were a lot of wonderful things about this FanEdit. </p>
<p>I should really re-watch my Donner Cut DVD to compare some of the stuff in the beginning and middle that I don&#8217;t recall quite as clearly as may be needed for a good comparison, but, with that said, I REALLY enjoyed this.</p>
<p>I think the visual f/x and the overall style and pacing and editing were really incredible. This is a VERY strong version of Superman II, and I&#8217;m terribly excited about seeing a final version of it with sound issues and hard cuts fixed. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m first going to list what didn&#8217;t work and then what did. Please don&#8217;t be discouraged by the many criticisms, this was very, very well done&#8230;.</p>
<p>The first thing which stood out as a problem was the arrival of the 3 villains in &#8220;Houston&#8221; &#8212; actually the small town out in TX somewhere unbeknownst to them. The confrontation between the villains and the local sheriff cuts off at an odd moment. I understand you added the sound of an explosion, to imply Zod had used his heat vision to blow them up, but it&#8217;s not working. Consider bringing up the explosion sound and perhaps adding a small visual effect of an explosion in your aerial shot. Alternatively, I&#8217;d recommend using the scene from The Booshman Cut and adding a blur (the lack of which was the only issue I had w/HIS version of this scene) to show Zod moving quickly to grab the shotgun. (I make the blur and explosion suggestions since you&#8217;re clearly very good with the visual f/x.)</p>
<p>The rest of your version of this scene is also problematic &#8212; it&#8217;s all very random. They walk into a diner, then someone is tossed through the door, with no context. I get the idea of showing that they&#8217;re causing havoc, but it still needs to all have context and flow like a real story. And these scenes do not flow. Also, keep in mind, in a movie, even a fast-paced movie, shots rarely last less than 3 seconds. And you have some bizarre quick-cuts that are amidst an otherwise slow scene. (A series of quick-cuts is different.)</p>
<p>Also, when the villains are fighting in the small town, we HEAR the news man before we SEE him. I&#8217;d recommend reversing that. We need to know who that is FIRST.</p>
<p>We spend an awful lot of time w/Miss T and Lex heading north. While I enjoyed most of it, it really slows the pacing of the movie down. I recommend cutting some of the stuff in the balloon, on the ice, as well as outside and inside the Fortress. There&#8217;s a reason Donner cut it. As a screenwriter myself, I can tell you when writing, the next thing you do is edit the script down. And, for each scene, you have to ask yourself &#8220;What am I trying to impart here?&#8221; and then boil that scene down JUST to that information. At the Fortress, the important aspects are: Lex finds the Fortress, Lex learns about the Phantom Zone villains. I&#8217;m not saying you can&#8217;t have some of the other things, but those 2 aspects should be your focus in all that.</p>
<p>Now, this one&#8217;s gonna hurt a bit: most of what you did in Niagara Falls works. But placing the screen test scene into the actual final scene didn&#8217;t, and let me explain why:<br />
1. it&#8217;s an important scene, the first plot point actually, and the visual f/x aren&#8217;t quite smooth enough to NOT distract the viewer from what&#8217;s happening. I understand, yes, Clark&#8217;s hair and glasses change, but that&#8217;s FAR LESS distracting than seeing Clark and Lois pasted into the honeymoon suite.<br />
2. Clark never actually reacts to Lois. The Blank Bullets scene is the screen test that proved to Donner these two actors belong together. Why? Because they had INCREDIBLE chemistry. By using Lois from the test and Clark from the Lester movie, you have REMOVED the chemistry, b/c they are clearly not interacting.</p>
<p>BTW, I really enjoyed your establishing shot of the two of them in the suite from the outside but that lasts a bit too long.</p>
<p>You must, must, MUST remove the Mt. Rushmore scene. I despised it as a young boy, and it doesn&#8217;t work now. Again, I recommend the Booshman cut: he placed the destruction of the Washington Monument on the TV screen in that scene. It&#8217;s much stronger&#8230;and the line which follows (&#8220;Thousands of hours to create&#8230;&#8221;) still works.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an odd shot of a brick building when the sirens are sounding around The White House. That tan-colored building stands out, since everything else is, well, white.</p>
<p>Something weird happens when Superman is about to hand Lex over to the authorities outside the Fortress, but the sound is having so many problems there &#8212; although for just about 2 seconds &#8212; I can&#8217;t imagine you&#8217;re not aware of it.</p>
<p>The cut from Superman on top of the White House to being back in Metropolis is abrupt&#8230;and confusing.</p>
<p>The final thing on this list: you have 4 denouements. The movie ends 4x. Once when Clark and Lois leave the fortress, then again when Clark Kisses Lois at the Planet, then again in the Planet w/Pizza, then AGAIN at the Planet with Paris. I recommend cutting out #2; it&#8217;s too confusing to go from DAILY PLANET &#8211; DAY to DAILY PLANET &#8211; DAY&#8230;again. So here&#8217;s my recommendation:<br />
Go from the talk up north and the balcony scene to the pizza conversation&#8230;the fact they give each other a look about him being &#8220;super&#8221; is terrific. (You may even be able to remove the balcony scene altogether. If you choose not to, I&#8217;ve a recommendation about that scene below.) Then, instead of having Clark say &#8220;good morning&#8221; to everyone again, just have him walk into Perry&#8217;s office. His outfit it ALMOST identical to the previous scene and, since we last saw him leave for a pizza, the natural assumption will be that he&#8217;s looking for Lois to give her the pizza since he soon asks about her. (Go from &#8220;Get your head out of the clouds&#8221; to Jimmy&#8217;s line.)</p>
<p>Besides, the middle ending has a weird shot of Perry that seems awfully random. (Although you did a WONDERFUL job on the music in that middle one.) I also recommend, in Day 2 at the Planet, when Clark comes in the NEXT </p>
<p>Balcony recommendation: when Lois is dropped-off on the balcony, cut to him flying off after he puts his hand to her shoulder, b/c continuing to show how upset she is is meant to be a portent of things to come (i.e., a Super-kiss or him Turning Back the World), but since you&#8217;re giving them a HAPPY ending, the long goodbye is awkward. </p>
<p>Several sound issues at the start and the end (and a VERY hard cut between saving Jimmy/Lois and feed Miss Tessmacher to the babies you need to fix) I&#8217;m assuming you&#8217;re aware of and need to fix.</p>
<p>The good:<br />
I&#8217;m 99% certain you re-edited the opening of the film different from the Donner Cut, and I loved it. Wonderful way to remind us that he&#8217;s ALREADY turned back the world, so there&#8217;s no reason to have him do it again. </p>
<p>I believe you also added a &#8220;Lois?!&#8221; from Clark looking out the Daily Planet window at Lois on a fruit stand. Also wonderful, and a major issue I had w/the Donner Cut. I&#8217;m guessing you took it from the Jump in The Water scene in Niagara Falls. I also like how you re-did the pacing on the scene of Lois jumping out of the Planet window.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you didn&#8217;t use the Otis &amp; Lex repairing the car escape. The hot air balloon is much stronger.</p>
<p>I enjoyed Lois and Supes in the Fortress. Good work there.</p>
<p>The villains attacking at the mall in Washington was brilliant.</p>
<p>I really liked seeing where Ursa got her ribbons (in the Oval Office). Again, I don&#8217;t remember that in The Donner Cut and, as a kid, not knowing really bugged me.</p>
<p>People are going to get on your case about using &#8220;Oh, Superman!&#8221; twice in the big fight in Act 3, but I didn&#8217;t mind it.</p>
<p>If there&#8217;s any way for you to work your magic on some of the extended fight scenes, to make the f/x better, please do. It&#8217;s still a nice piece of work.</p>
<p>Your actual FINAL scene is just wonderful. It leaves you wanting a Superman III. (Heh.) Seriously, great music edit there, great use of other unused shots. A really PERFECT end scene. </p>
<p>Overall, I really liked this. My strongest recommendations out of all of the above: Fix the villains in the western town and fix the denouements. This was really a, dare I say it, stupendous piece of work! I&#8217;m thoroughly impressed and looking forward to the final!</p>
<p>Congratulations on a great cut!</p>
<p>-PBot<br />
p.s. if anyone can get a hold of ADIGITALMAN, I&#8217;m desperate for his extended cut of Blazing Saddles. Thx!</p>
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