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Doctor Who

white43 said:
I suppose it was just me that went - but Amy/Rory - you do have children/child.....:D

River really ceased being theirs as soon as she regenerated into Mels, not only did her personality change, so did her race colour
 
Zarius said:
River really ceased being theirs as soon as she regenerated into Mels, not only did her personality change, so did her race colour

And then she regenerates into River, with the same hair colour as Amy. So what? River Song IS Amy and Rory's daughter regardless of regenerations.
 
LastSurvivor said:
A great episode? Not for me I'm afraid guys. I've been a fan of Who ever since I hid behind the sofa when Tom Baker met the nightmare who is Davros back in the 70's, and whilst I was delighted when the series returned under the leadership of Russell T Davis, I feel gradually it has deteriorated into a show which has lost its identity and has become far too bogged down in "soap opera" elements which seem to revolve around the companions either being obsessed or fancying The Doctor. Not only that, but the producers seem far to worried about making the companion the centre of attention.

Now, I for one rejoiced when I heard Steven Moffat was taking over as producer, particularly as he was involved in some of my favourite stories of the new series. However, after the debacle which was the story arc last season, revolving around some nonsense about Amy's baby being River Song etc, I think Moffat is too much of a fanboy and believes himself to be a far cleverer writer and producer than he actually is. To me, last season included some of the very worst Doctor Who stories - period. "A Good Man Goes to War", "Let's Kill Hitler" and "The Wedding of River Song" were the main culprits, all being written by Moffat and all being so full of cringe inducing comedy one-liners and a story arc so laughably inept in terms of its logic or believability that it almost, almost had me quitting the series I have loved since I was a child. I could just see Moffat sitting there writing these stories out with a smug "Aren't I so so clever" look on his face, believing that all his nudge-nudge, wink-wink in-jokes which he forces The Doctor, his companions and River Song to spout, would hide the fact that his great ambitious story arc actually did not hold up at all. It was pure garbage - sorry.

Unfortunately, Aslyum of The Daleks, whilst including some good ideas, particularly in the attempt to make the Daleks scary again (the scene where Rory is seen skulking around the asylum where all the old daleks are seemingly dead is priceless creepy Doctor Who), still falls apart due to some awful character interplay, or should I say, awful dialogue which has Amy being more annoying than ever to both The Doctor and Rory, and then more worryingly making Jenna-Louise Coleman also join in on the act by making immature quips at every given opportunity. I'm all for good interplay between characters, but sorry, Moffat still thinks he's writing Press Gang at times.

I will keep watching, as it's a show that is very dear to my heart and I live in hope that the next producer might actually have the balls to try and make Doctor Who the intelligent and truly unique show which it once was. We don't have to have all the companions fancying The Doctor; we don't have to have poorly structured story arcs; we don't have to pretend that immature quips and one liners qualifies as good writing; and we don't need the show wallowing in its own belief that we have to be reminded every five minutes about how "amazing" The Doctor really is.

I know, I know. It's very rare that I rant like this. And I've been wanting to write this down for quite some time, as I find it difficult to see one of the best Science Fiction television series in history being slowly stripped bare of all its "unique" qualities. Also, I realise that I appear to be in the minority, so hey, what do I know? ;)

I truly feel however, that Moffat needs to step down at the end of the season. We need a sense of class and maturity brought to the producers chair. Boy, do we need it.

Great to hear a different perspective LS!

Funny, we usually like and agree on most things, but I find for the most I differ in my opinion about the current run of Doctor Who. I find myself really enjoying Moffat's run with the Doctor.

"A Good Man Goes to War", "Let's Kill Hitler" and "The Wedding of River Song"

I LOVED these 3 episodes! Put Hitler in the cupboard! LOL!

But then again, I do not have a big history with the show and I am not as emotionally invested, as true Whovians.

When I read the Who Forums, I find many Who Fans echoing your opinion. So you are clearly not in the minority.

It is like when people start talking Star Trek, and begin to praise VOYAGER -- my inner Trekker becomes very upset, as I feel Voyager is easily the worst incarnation of Trek ever produced.

But in reality, it all about when you first encounter a beloved show and how invested you become. As my experience with Dr. Who was sporadic and not til late in my teen years, so I was never one of those classic kids hiding behind the couch.
 
I can't stand pure Whovians (and I AM one so I should know), they usually come across like entitled toffs who think they know better than the people running the show. They also suffer from a little thing John Nathan Turner would deem a "cheating memory" and overexaggerate just how "classy" and "high-quality" the old show was when..truth be told...it was actually worse at times (not always thankfully, but if you were to tell me The Toymaker, The Dominators, Nightmare of Eden, Horns of Nimon etc were examples of genius television, I'd laugh in your face) Moffat doesnt hide this either, as he once admited the old show was "shit" and that Peter Davison was the best Doctor because he went on to put more on his CV pedigree than any of the others.

Doctor Who was always a daft old nonsensical kids show. What's wrong with embracing the cheese and winking at the audience? Douglas Adams was doing that long before Steven Moffat, and nobody complains because Adams wrote one of THE greatest DW stories of all time ("City of Death"), same with Moffat, he's written some of the best DW stories of all time, yet just because he does things that certain people dislike, that's grounds for him to leave? You want him to go because you want CLASS in a show about a guy who offers Jelly Babies to all his enemies? You couldnt get high drama out of that with Tom Baker, why are you demanding it now?

Reallisticly, Moffat is doing a damn good job...if you don't agree, you're either one of two things

1. Joyless
2. Too old for this show

You're right, you ARE in a minority, so let the rest of us enjoy this wonderful show and go complain to the hilt on boring forums like Gallifrey Base where they make a career out of hating a show they claim to love.

white43 said:
And then she regenerates into River, with the same hair colour as Amy. So what? River Song IS Amy and Rory's daughter regardless of regenerations.

Nope, different personality (even with the same memories), rewritten DNA, everything that makes Melody Pond uniquely Amy and Rorys vanished with that first regeneration
 
Reallisticly, Moffat is doing a damn good job...if you don't agree, you're either one of two things

1. Joyless
2. Too old for this show

You're right, you ARE in a minority, so let the rest of us enjoy this wonderful show and go complain to the hilt on boring forums like Gallifrey Base where they make a career out of hating a show they claim to love.

.... uh Zarius, I think you may be a tad over reacting, which is easy to do when we are passionate about something...

Last Survivor is entitled to his opinion and he is free to share it with us.
You (and I) don't have to agree, but we do have to polite and open minded,
and not make this personal.

I love some runs of Tom Baker better than others. Some are brilliant, others I find completely daft.
Just with as with Moffatt (and RTD), I have loved most episodes,
but there have been some I thought were completely awful and poorly executed.
And you and I may disagree on these, but each of our opinions are valid and worth hearing.

As we say over in another long running sci-fi franchise, "Infinite diversity in infinite combinations".
:)
 
Zarius said:
Reallisticly, Moffat is doing a damn good job...if you don't agree, you're either one of two things

1. Joyless
2. Too old for this show

You forgot Option 3.

Somebody who forms opinions based on his own experience.

You both fall in this category.
 
Yeah, I agree with Bionic Bob's praise for this episode and for the series. I think that in terms of the intricate plotting ("Blink," "Silence in the Library"), the characterization, the humor, the emotion ("Amy's Choice," "The Girl Who Waited"), there's no writer who's ever been better for Doctor Who than Steven Moffat, period.

That said, we are all entitled to think differently on the issue, and we shouldn't take someone's rant against a particular story personally. :)
 
The BBC has just released another video prequel for "Asylum of the Daleks."

Don't ask me why they did another, separate video after giving us Pond Life all last week. Also don't ask me why this is being released after the fact, rather than teasing the upcoming "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship." I'm utterly baffled on both of those points.

But the video itself is neat and creepy in just the right ways.

 
Nice find Tom!

I totally missed that one. Good, creepy stuff!:)
 
Very good and creepy indeed! And is it just me, or does that extreme closeup where we just see his eyes almost look like Eccleston? It probably isn't, but it would be a very cool tease if it were.
 
I dream of having the talent to put together a fan made Time War movie showing the change from McGann to Eccleston. Or having an official followup to the 1995 film showing just that. Maybe someday.
 
Hey all.... Zarius, I in no way meant my rant to be taken so personally and I apologise if I upset or annoyed you at all. Maybe I was a little harsh, and as Bob says, it really is just my own opinion and in no way do I pretend that I know better than anybody else.

Also, there are many stories within the classic series which have been pretty awful, including nearly all of poor Sylvester McCoy's dodgy first season, not to mention as you pointed out when Graham Williams allowed Tom Baker too much of a free hand with his own style of humour during the period of Horns of Nimon and the like.

I have honestly enjoyed many stories of new Doctor Who, particularly David Tennant's season with Martha, with Blink being one of my absolute favourites. And yes, that's written by Moffat. So, I don't hate the guy or anything like that. I just think he's supplied much better scripts when he has not been producer.

Oh, and as for "pretending to love the show".... honestly, it's a show which I genuinely do love... hence why those feelings within the rant came forth, as I just don't like the way which Moffat is going. Again, just my opinion mind.

Peace man ;)
 
Hey LS,

I don't think you have anything to apologize for, you were just expressing your own passionate, personal opinion.

That is one of the things the forum is for, to discuss differing opinions without fear of others turning it into a personal attack.

I certainly did not take your "rant" as a personal attack, and no one else should either.

As I said before, I am not well versed in the history and lore of Doctor Who and greatly enjoy hearing different perspectives. So please, continue to share with us. :)
 
addiesin said:
I dream of having the talent to put together a fan made Time War movie showing the change from McGann to Eccleston. Or having an official followup to the 1995 film showing just that. Maybe someday.

That would be cool.

I have never listened to any of the BIG FINISH AUDIO PRODUCTIONS,
but do any of them deal with the Time War? I believe McGann has done several productions for them???
 
There isn't one straightforward story about it in any of the novels or audio dramas, but there are a bunch of stories that tell about smaller things that happened - the side skirmishes and stuff. The telling of how the Time War ended was relegated to what the Tenth Doctor mentioned it in the two-parter "The End of Time," which IMHO was awful.

For the 50th anniversary, I'd like to see a story where the Eleventh Doctor has to go back in time to the Time War and change something, thus allowing a fuller view of how it ended, and maybe he could even change some of what happens. Paul McGann is still in good shape, so he could play the Eighth Doctor in it! (Multi-Doctor stories were fairly common in the classic era.)

To learn more about the Time War, you can read up about it on this page of the Doctor Who Wiki (it's a really great resource that I use constantly):

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Last_Great_Time_War
 
I am not certain what I want to see for the 50th.

I read there is a RUMOR of a live tv episode.

A multi-Doctor team up would be cool if the threat is epic enough to warrant it.

Maybe a "Forrest Gump" style episode (like they did with Deep Space Nine) with the Doctor going back to "fix" some of his past mistakes and popping into the background of past classic storylines?
 
TomH1138 said:
There isn't one straightforward story about it in any of the novels or audio dramas, but there are a bunch of stories that tell about smaller things that happened - the side skirmishes and stuff. The telling of how the Time War ended was relegated to what the Tenth Doctor mentioned it in the two-parter "The End of Time," which IMHO was awful.

For the 50th anniversary, I'd like to see a story where the Eleventh Doctor has to go back in time to the Time War and change something, thus allowing a fuller view of how it ended, and maybe he could even change some of what happens. Paul McGann is still in good shape, so he could play the Eighth Doctor in it! (Multi-Doctor stories were fairly common in the classic era.)

Agreed about McGann, and he has repeatedly said that he'd be interested if it were offered. Couple that with the debut of Eighth's "new costume" a while back -- with a coat that was reminiscent of but not identical to Ninth's, an Indy-like satchel, and a very steampunk-ish sonic screwdriver designed by WETA -- and it seems almost criminal not to bring him back in some form or other, particularly since McGann has hinted that that particular outfit is more suited to a soldier (or sailor) in time of war.

I'd also love to see his different takes on the Doctor explored in live action. He brought some of the boyish enthusiasm from the movie into some of the audio adventures. In "Mary's Story," though, he gets to play both that and a world-weary, battle-scarred veteran version of Eighth...it would be very interesting to see how he got from one to the other.
 
TomH1138 said:
For the 50th anniversary, I'd like to see a story where the Eleventh Doctor has to go back in time to the Time War and change something, thus allowing a fuller view of how it ended, and maybe he could even change some of what happens. Paul McGann is still in good shape, so he could play the Eighth Doctor in it! (Multi-Doctor stories were fairly common in the classic era.)

Now that would be something! :)


How about a theory? I believe the Weeping Angels originated as Time Lords/Ladies. Why? The episode End of Time. "The Woman" (whom I believe to be the Doctor's mother) opposes Rassilon and he punishes her and another Time Lord by making them cover their eyes. I thought of the Angels immediately and thought there must be more to that. What if Rassilon had some sort of power to keep Time Lords alive through the destruction of Gallifrey by preserving them as creatures of stone? Or what if it was an unintentional effect of the time war(since it seems to be linked to a punishment)? What if The Crack is a crack in the lock on the time war? The lock is breaking slowly, caused by The Master, and the Angels that get sucked into it would be returning to Gallifrey/Heaven/Hell depending on how you'd look at it. AH, SPECULATION!

And lastly, a little rant. While I was a bit torn by the new episode, I think it achieved something that I've never seen before, if only for a moment: scary Daleks. I am a big Nu-Who fan and have just never found Daleks or Cybermen to be threatening. In fact I find them to be annoyingly similar in their goals, weakness, and overall execution. They're in metal cases so they think they're superior to humans and other life forms. However, they're dumber, slower, can't feel emotion, and have their minds attached to a network so they don't have individual identities and are basically slow, stupid, faceless, nameless badguys. Even in large numbers, think the Dalek invasion, they're only a threat because of the large numbers. Once I really thought about it and researched a bit, that pretty much accounts for EVERY robotic character in Doctor Who.

What's it take to get Cybermen with a REAL upgrade? One where they move like fast predatory animal or a spider or something and operate in the dark and snatch and convert you in secret and leave pieces of you behind in a trail for your loved ones to follow to their own conversion in a secluded room.
How about Daleks? Sure, it was creepy when Rory was walking around in the most recent episodes and they were coming back to life, and I love the idea of Dalek people with the glowy forehead (though again, isn't that just Daleks "converting" people into Daleks, killing their human selves in the process... just like Cybermen?) but what would be a good big change to make Daleks fresh and scary again? What if they didn't talk? What if they were just silent. You walk up to it, ask a question, assume it's dead and BAM! Dead. Daleks, silent killers. That's the best I've got. Until tomorrow...
 
So TORCHWOOD MIRACLE DAY is now on Netflix, so I forced myself to restart it and finish it this time.

I will admit, I actually enjoyed it more this time, while I applaud how ambitious the story is, it definitely did not warrant 10 episodes to tell it, it felt far too long and stretched out beyond belief! But the last episode was a nail biter and I was totally glued until the very last scene. But the whole series ends on a frakking cliffhanger!!! No resolution for the Big Bads and a hint at a PLAN B!!! I hate that! And considering it did fairly poorly on the STARZ network, I don't know if or when there will be another series. And since RTD is not part of Dr. Who anymore, I doubt we will see any story tie up over there?

Which begs the question, if STARZ produced series four of Torchwood, is it part of the Dr. Who universe still?
If so, you think an event as massive as Miracle Day would have got a mention somewhere in series 5 or 6, since Amy and Rory would be living through this apocalyptic event? Or maybe it did get a nod and I missed it???
 
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