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The Acolyte - Cancelled

Redstripes

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So it seems that there won't be any season 2 for the show. I haven't watched it yet, mainly due to the poor reviews I read online, and I understood that season 1 ended on a cliffhanger and that there were several scenes teasing a season 2. As it won't be happening, I was wondering if what is contained in season 1 can be considered as a self contained story that would make worth the watch? Or does the cancellation after season 1 make it pointless to watch?
 
So it seems that there won't be any season 2 for the show. I haven't watched it yet, mainly due to the poor reviews I read online, and I understood that season 1 ended on a cliffhanger and that there were several scenes teasing a season 2. As it won't be happening, I was wondering if what is contained in season 1 can be considered as a self contained story that would make worth the watch? Or does the cancellation after season 1 make it pointless to watch?

I really enjoyed the Acolyte. Bummer news.

I think it's definitely worth a watch. It's a good standalone story. It doesn't really break canon at all. I wish they'd move forward with a Season 2 because there is a lot of story to tell here between the end of the High Republic and The Phantom Menace.

There's a natural progression with what happens in the events of this show and how the Senate lost trust and confidence with the Jedi Order, handcuffing them, leading to Sheev gaining power. It's all juicy, juicy stuff. And of course all the stuff with the power of two and Darth Plagueis.

again, real bummer news.

sponge bob day GIF
 
The whole pre-backlash against this show was and is gross. That said, I thought some things about it were interesting and I appreciate stories outside of the Skywalker Saga.

That said again, overall I didn't really enjoy the show. Personally I'm just waiting for the fanedits to come out and wrangle a good and well made story out of the available material. Personally, if season 2 could provide more context for a better fanedit, I am all down for them to make it.

Disney Star Wars has genuinely good shows/movies under their belt. As well as some horrendous and offensively bad trash. And thats just something to accept. The bandaid has been pulled off some time ago and the real future lies in the fans who are editing and fixing what has been filmed and produced. And I'm pretty close to content with that.

Personally I do think something well made and entertaining could be fanedited from season 1, but something truly stand alone and satisfying for more people could probably only be done with a lot of extra hard work like with what PixelJoker95 is doing with Kenobi: Trials of the Master. That or more of a follow up to tie up loose threads like a second season.
 
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I think they lost a lot of good faith and garnered a lot of bad faith with episode 1 and the first parts of episode 2. It set people up in a very negative attitude which then gained steam and the criticisms overshadowed any chance it initially had.
I turned it off in scorn on two separate attempts to watch it. the first time was right at the end of episode 1, the second time was about 15 minutes into episode 2. The third time I tried it, I got past those bits and it improved drastically from there.
It's not surprising that this has been cancelled, but having watched and enjoyed it now, it is a shame. I don't think it ever could have recovered though, people have already written it off.

The story of season 1 does work as a stand-alone story. yes there are foreshadow events, but those exist in everything. Also, with Star Wars lore being what it is, we already know what these things are foreshadowing. It's fairly plain and clear.
 
I read the reasoning was a lot of DNFs. I know it’s just one viewer but I wonder if the timing was a factor. My kid loved it but it went into his summer break and he was at sleep away camp and still hasn’t been able to watch the last few episodes. For a show targeted, in part, at kids, having it go into the summer is tough. I know as an adult I don’t watch much tv in the summer.
 
As I understand it (from a certain point of view, at least), the series is fundamentally to a Black Lives Matter/Defund the Police allegory: a bunch of cops show up, unwanted, to a minority community, where a black woman makes a gesture a male cop perceives as threatening, so he panics, draws his weapon, and kills her.

This presented two small issues: 1) Jedi are telepaths/empaths, so the gesture has to be preeeetttty credibly threatening for the story to work at all, thus significantly dulling the tragic heft of the incident, and 2) such an incident is hardly a big enough hook to hang a season's worth of events on.

Fortunately, they had Kennedy's ADeLC mantra to turn to: Always Devalue Legacy Characters. Why leave the impression that Palpatine and Darth Plagueis were a two-of-a-kind Sith geniuses who discovered/refined the unnatural ability to "use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life" when, with the magic of prequels, one can suggest they just borrowed/stole such knowledge from others? Where's the excitement in Anakin and Luke defeating a once-in-a-millennium evil mastermind when one can retroactively establish him as an ordinary thug plagiarist?

And, voila - what could have been a self-contained incident in an episodic show about Jedi generally being galactic heroes, albeit not without flaws and faults here and there, instead becomes the foundation for a show about how much the Jedi always mostly sucked, because they weren't the Jedi Order founded by Rey, the source of all light and goodness in the galaxy. Suddenly, a $180m budget for 4.5 hours of content doesn't seem like a terrible idea after all! Multi-season glory, here they come! :p
 
As I understand it (from a certain point of view, at least), the series is fundamentally to a Black Lives Matter/Defund the Police allegory: a bunch of cops show up, unwanted, to a minority community, where a black woman makes a gesture a male cop perceives as threatening, so he panics, draws his weapon, and kills her.

This presented two small issues: 1) Jedi are telepaths/empaths, so the gesture has to be preeeetttty credibly threatening for the story to work at all, thus significantly dulling the tragic heft of the incident, and 2) such an incident is hardly a big enough hook to hang a season's worth of events on.

Fortunately, they had Kennedy's ADeLC mantra to turn to: Always Devalue Legacy Characters. Why leave the impression that Palpatine and Darth Plagueis were a two-of-a-kind Sith geniuses who discovered/refined the unnatural ability to "use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life" when, with the magic of prequels, one can suggest they just borrowed/stole such knowledge from others? Where's the excitement in Anakin and Luke defeating a once-in-a-millennium evil mastermind when one can retroactively establish him as an ordinary thug plagiarist?

And, voila - what could have been a self-contained incident in an episodic show about Jedi generally being galactic heroes, albeit not without flaws and faults here and there, instead becomes the foundation for a show about how much the Jedi always mostly sucked, because they weren't the Jedi Order founded by Rey, the source of all light and goodness in the galaxy. Suddenly, a $180m budget for 4.5 hours of content doesn't seem like a terrible idea after all! Multi-season glory, here they come! :p

I think that's a pretty bad faith read. I think it ultimately is a show about "Jedi generally being galactic heroes, albeit not without flaws and faults here and there". The cop role is only placed on them due to the events of the show. But they are depicted as academics more than anything. Every other [british, for some reason] Jedi we meet is pointedly this dorky, book-ish archetype - Vernestra doesn't even like being out in the field. The Jedi crew that start all of this are literally just doing botanical/archaeological surveys - not enforcing law, not even being diplomats. They aren't even tied to the Senate yet.

I think it goes wrong with Sol as a man of faith, misreading his own paternal feelings as something external he needs to answer to - the will of the Force - unaware that he is driving the action in increasingly reckless ways. His one big moment has "cop" valence, yeah, but it's not a systemic dissection of anything. It doesn't say the Jedi Order always sucked at all.

Indara is portrayed as completely on it, for example. She is able to step outside their beliefs and tell Sol that the markings could just be a cultural thing, not necessarily an abomination in the Force. She explicitly tells Sol that Torbin needs to make his own mistakes and gives him the space to do so. Indara wants to leave everyone be, is level-headed throughout. The lie she makes for Osha only arises as consequence of Sol's actions, he failed *as* a Jedi, not because he was one.
 
As I understand it (from a certain point of view, at least), the series is fundamentally to a Black Lives Matter/Defund the Police allegory
Direct allegories to recent events aside, I think a story like this could work.

A detail in the prequels that goes under-appreciated is that Palpatine's story about the Jedi trying to stage a coup is kind of true.
The Jedi go from impartial advisors helping resolve domestic disputes to armed enforcers suppressing secessionists on behalf of the senate to actively attempting to dispose the head of state and take direct control of the government.
It's like if the supreme court formed their own paramilitary, stormed parliament and tried to assassinate the king.

A SW story about the Jedi order overstepping their bounds and alienating the people of the Galaxy could be super interesting if it was done right.
What I'm saying is, I really like it when Star Wars characters sit around at talk about politics ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Fortunately, they had Kennedy's ADeLC mantra to turn to: Always Devalue Legacy Characters. Why leave the impression that Palpatine and Darth Plagueis were a two-of-a-kind Sith geniuses who discovered/refined the unnatural ability to "use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life" when, with the magic of prequels, one can suggest they just borrowed/stole such knowledge from others? Where's the excitement in Anakin and Luke defeating a once-in-a-millennium evil mastermind when one can retroactively establish him as an ordinary thug plagiarist?
I think they were rather quite vague about all that to be honest. The way these witches produced these girls was not really specified. Also, we know that Qimir was doing some manipulations somehow, and we also know that other dude was hiding in the cave there, which quite easily could have been the actual responsible parties for the girls, as the legend goes? I don't know, but I think people can jump to conclusions easily especially when the show garners bad faith via poor writing and terrible actors who were cast because they are dating the director...
 
I watched it just for laughs and to see how low Disney SW could go. It is only half a story now without an ending, not that anyone but a few wanted to see more. If you like cringe content, appalling writing, and terrible acting, then go for it. Otherwise, avoid it like the plague. I doubt even a fan edit could save it.
 
The cop role is only placed on them due to the events of the show. But they are depicted as academics more than anything. Every other [british, for some reason] Jedi we meet is pointedly this dorky, book-ish archetype - Vernestra doesn't even like being out in the field. The Jedi crew that start all of this are literally just doing botanical/archaeological surveys - not enforcing law, not even being diplomats.

See, this is weird in of itself. The definition of a "knight" is "a mounted man-at-arms serving a feudal superior." Obi-Wan said "the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic," not "botanists and archaeological surveyors." Lucas didn't call them Jedi Monks for just that reason.

Now, could I buy that the Old Jedi Order included a corps of Monks for non-combat purposes, and that Knights might retire to such roles? Sure, and sure, younger Jedi should be exposed to such activities. But Knights, even Knight Padawans, should first and foremost be peacekeepers/diplomats/protectors/enforcers of justice.

But, more than that, apart from the pre-Tatooine bits of TPM (bits which where poisoned by lots of Jar-Jar), this was the first time live-action SW had depicted classic Jedi in the Old Republic era... and the TPTB thought that portraying them "literally just doing botanical/archaeological surveys" was a good move? This reeks of bad judgment through and through - see below.


I think they were rather quite vague about all that to be honest. The way these witches produced these girls was not really specified. Also, we know that Qimir was doing some manipulations somehow, and we also know that other dude was hiding in the cave there, which quite easily could have been the actual responsible parties for the girls, as the legend goes?

This all sounds like an excellent cure for insomnia. :LOL:



The Jedi go from impartial advisors helping resolve domestic disputes to armed enforcers suppressing secessionists on behalf of the senate to actively attempting to dispose the head of state and take direct control of the government. It's like if the supreme court formed their own paramilitary, stormed parliament and tried to assassinate the king.

I reeeeaaally don't want to be put in the position of defending the PT, which I loathe (always have, always will), but I think you overstate your case. I don't think the Jedi were trying to "take direct control of the government"; they were trying to apprehend a war criminal. (Chancellor or not, being a Sith lord makes one subject to arrest.) A closer analogy might be if a sitting president committed murder, and an FBI team went to detain them.


A SW story about the Jedi order overstepping their bounds and alienating the people of the Galaxy could be super interesting if it was done right.

I don't entirely disagree with this. Also, the premise of The Book of Boba Fett - a ruthless, amoral bounty hunter trying to become a benevolent community leader, albeit by force as much as representation, was "interesting." Heck, in TLJ, Luke renouncing the Jedi way and its legacy was interesting.

Buuuuuuuut, here's the thing: interesting ≠ fun. And, IMHO, Star Wars should always first be fun. Star Trek can, and should, be interesting first and fun second, because it's a philosophical adventure franchise at its core. Star Wars, however, is a fantasy fairy tale at its core. It can absolutely aspire to be interesting as well as fun at times, as with Andor: that series is interesting because of how thoroughly it examines and explains how fascist systems are built and maintained, but it's always first and foremost fun, because it's a survival tale. Andor, Mon Mothma, and the rest may live in wildly different circumstances, but they're all a slip-up or careless mistake away from being killed at all times. That kind of fun may appeal to adults much more than children, but it's still fun. I'm quite certain Tony Gilroy didn't write Andor as nail-bitingly tense by accident.

And, that's really the core problem here, not just with this show, but with Kennedy's whole tenure, IMO. She hired Rian Johnson, who wrote a script that, whether one loves it or not, and praises its philosophical meta-analyses of the franchise or not, just wasn't fun. She approved a story arc for TBoBF that was acutely short on fun. Obi-Wan Kenobi's few attempts to be fun here and there were downright embarrassing. Mando S3 and Ahsoka sound to me like exercises in boredom, courtesy of Filoni being more interested in building out lore than crafting compelling characters. (How the f*** can you have Thrawn be a major character, and the most sinister thing he does for a whole season is load cargo and let the heroes go?!) And now we have The Acolyte, which sounds muddled, slowly paced, and generally not very fun. (Say what one likes about Abrams, and I'll readily say he's a hack, but TRoS is at least a movie that's trying its best to entertain.)

Meanwhile, two years after the wild success of Top Gun: Maverick (with Cruise taking his sweet personal time making more), Lucasfilm still can't be bothered to get a Rogue Squadron movie into production anytime in the next few years, and that concept should be the easiest layup in Hollywood, given that it can be filmed mostly inside, and requires no particular big-name actors/characters.

It's just nuts.

🤷‍♂️
 
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As I understand it (from a certain point of view, at least), the series is fundamentally to a Black Lives Matter/Defund the Police allegory: a bunch of cops show up, unwanted, to a minority community, where a black woman makes a gesture a male cop perceives as threatening, so he panics, draws his weapon, and kills her.

To me, I just saw numerous parallels to the Waco Standoff. While there's no doubt intention to connect things to modern goings-on, that really stood out to me as an unusual choice for Star Wars.

All in all, I thought Acolyte was an okay show with two absolute A+ episodes ("Night" and the finale). There were moments of splendid visual poetry, some nice action, and some meaningful deconstructions of established tropes and character types. But there were also many creative choices I disagreed with, a severely miscast lead (the eye rolling!) and found most of the advertising to be misleading. While I'm not at all opposed to bait-and-switch, that only works if the switch is more compelling than the bait (Jedi Trinity) and this simply did not live up to that. I would have liked to see more, but of all the live action Star Wars shows thus far, I'd probably miss this the least. Even though I'd probably say I enjoyed the series more than Obi-Wan, a second year of that has more potential than the conclusion of Ohsa and Mae's story.
 
they were trying to apprehend a war criminal. (Chancellor or not, being a Sith lord makes one subject to arrest.) A closer analogy might be if a sitting president committed murder, and an FBI team went to detain them.
I might be being semantic, but the FBI doesn't have the authority to arrest the president even if he was sacrificing babies in the Oval Office.
The Jedi were right to go after Palpatine, but they weren't doing it because he'd taken over the senate or because he had committed war crimes. They were his generals and helped him every step of the way. The only tried to arrest him because their religion demands it, and if they're going to make unilateral legislative statements like "being a Sith Lord is illegal" then they're asserting themselves as the sovereign power in the galaxy, above the chancellor and even the senate.
If they had turned on Palpatine earlier, when he became a dictator, or if they hadn't arrogantly believed that "Sith Lords are our speciality", they might have tried anything other than storming his office and waving swords in his face and they might have been successful. But because they believed that their philosophy made them the arbiters of right and wrong, they saw themselves as being above the political system, which is why they were happy to become Palpatine's footsoldiers on the grounds that the CIS is evil and it's their job to kill evil people regardless of what anyone else thinks.
That philosophy is what allowed Palpatine to rise to power and it's ultimately that philosophy that allows Palpatine to justify getting rid of them.
Buuuuuuuut, here's the thing: interesting ≠ fun.
This kind of goes without saying, even Birdemic's premise is interesting in so many words, but I'm a big George Lucas defender and I would argue that the OT has tons of fascinating philosophical themes that allowed it to stick in pop-culture when things like Flash Gordon faded from memory.
Where TLJ went wrong is that it didn't do anything interesting with it's interesting premise.
Yoda, Dooku, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anikin all turn their backs on the Jedi order in various ways and for various reasons, you could even say that Luke does in Empire when he abandoned his training to help his friends.
The difference with Luke in TLJ is that it doesn't make sense why he turns his back on it. The big takeaway from the OT is that no matter how evil someone is, as long as they're still alive they have a chance to redeem themselves, so why would he ever say "It's time for the Jedi to die"? They can't redeem themselves if they're dead! And don't even get me started on him brandishing his lightsaber over his nefew in "a moment of weakness". I've had more moments of weakness than a narcoleptic, and I've never seriously considered stabbing my nefew. And again, instead of trying to redeem himself he just gives up and waits for his family to get murdered by the Sith Lord he created.
TLJ isn't interesting because the "philosophy" underlying it is empty and vapid, it doesn't connect with the rest of the series at all, and it doesn't even manage to be relatable.

The reason I say a show like that could be interesting is that it's a missing piece of the puzzle. The prequels never showed us what the average person thinks of the Jedi order and how that changed over time (maybe Clone Wars covered it, idk). Disney could easily make another show like Andor to show how life under a militarised Jedi Order wasn't that great either. They could even do one about life in the New Republic, the balkanisation of the galaxy, the integration of Imperial state infrastructure, Empire loyalists, et. (The Mandalorian had that setup but they kind of squandered it, and the Sequels just had everything run on Age of Empire rules, where a priest says "wololo" and the entire galaxy switches from Empire to Republic and back again overnight.)
 
The Jedi were right to go after Palpatine, but they weren't doing it because he'd taken over the senate or because he had committed war crimes. They were his generals and helped him every step of the way. The only tried to arrest him because their religion demands it, and if they're going to make unilateral legislative statements like "being a Sith Lord is illegal" then they're asserting themselves as the sovereign power in the galaxy, above the chancellor and even the senate.

Aren't you merely guessing here that the Senate hasn't passed laws, maybe even at a Constitutional level, outlawing Sith practices and empowering the Jedi to enforce such a prohibition? And given they "were his generals and helped him every step of the way" only because they were tricked by him into doing so, I don't perceive any indication they don't intend to see him charged with war crimes by a civilian jury.


The reason I say a show like that could be interesting is that it's a missing piece of the puzzle. The prequels never showed us what the average person thinks of the Jedi order and how that changed over time (maybe Clone Wars covered it, idk). Disney could easily make another show like Andor to show how life under a militarised Jedi Order wasn't that great either.

Here's a radical idea I suppose Kathleen Kennedy would just hate: make a show about how the Old Republic Jedi were heroes. They could fight pirates and criminal rings, depose tyrants (when authorized to do so by a Senate oversight committee, one hopes), perform daring rescues, serve as emergency diplomats/mediators, etc. But that isn't her ADeLC (Always Devalue Legacy Characters) style, is it. Such a show might not be philosophically/politically interesting, but it could be fun.
 
Aren't you merely guessing here that the Senate hasn't passed laws, maybe even at a Constitutional level, outlawing Sith practices and empowering the Jedi to enforce such a prohibition?
Even if they had, you can't use the authority of the law against someone who has authority over the law. At this point in the story, Palpatine controls the senate. The law is essentially what he says it is.
There's a deleted subplot in Revenge of the Sith that shows a large minority in the senate wants Palpatine to relinquish his emergency powers, but they have no way to make him.
If the Jedi had gone to the senate first, they might have been able to sway them and oust Palpatine, they might have failed, but by trying to depose Palpatine under their own authority they made themselves look like tyrants and gave Palpatine the excuse to create the Empire, after which even the senate can't put limits on his power and the only option is outright revolution, and purge the Jedi, who were the only people in a position to lead such a revolution.
They did the dumbest thing they possibly could have, and they did it because they were arrogant enough to believe that the senate and the military would just accept their authority on the matter because they were Jedi.

make a show about how the Old Republic Jedi were heroes. They could fight pirates and criminal rings, depose tyrants (when authorized to do so by a Senate oversight committee, one hopes), perform daring rescues, serve as emergency diplomats/mediators, etc.

A show like this could be great, but I don't think it would be inherently more Star Wars than the Disney shows are. Star Wars has always been about people struggling to do the right thing, or even struggling to know what the right thing is.
What Disney misses is that Star Wars isn't just a setting in which stories take place, it is a story.
The prequels add context to the OT, Clone Wars adds context to ROTS, the reason everyone loves Andor is that it adds context to A New Hope. Even KOTOR in some ways adds context to The Phantom Menace by showing how the status quo came to be.
They're all different chapters in the same story (with new stories inside them), whereas Disney prefers making their stories more disjointed.

I hate the term "Skywalker Saga" because (I might be wrong about this) I never heard it before Rise of Skywalker as a half-assed attempt to claim the sequels as a part of the same story as the other trilogies, but in my opinion they just aren't.
They might literally follow on from the OT, but they hit hard reset on the setting and characters, putting them in whatever situation they liked and conviniently forgetting any character development that didn't match their vision.
A good Star Wars show should find a gap in the story and fill it with something that fits. A show about the Jedi at the height of their philosophy should demonstrate their philosophy and lay seeds for how the order lost its way, a movie set after RotJ should show how the lessons from the OT impacted the character's actions in the future and how the rebellion's ideals influenced the form and function of the New Republic, and a show like Acolyte set in the prequel era should show how the Jedi Order is failing to live up to its ideals and how they poisoned their image in the eyes of the public.

I don't know if Disney will do this. Up until now it seems like their strategy has just been to say "people who don't like the shows aren't real SW fans" but cancelling Acolyte seems like a change in their thinking. I'm sure they'll be looking at Andor for hints at how to make their shows more popular, but there's no way of knowing if they'll take the right message from it.
 
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I watched it just for laughs and to see how low Disney SW could go. It is only half a story now without an ending, not that anyone but a few wanted to see more. If you like cringe content, appalling writing, and terrible acting, then go for it. Otherwise, avoid it like the plague. I doubt even a fan edit could save it.
I'm in your camp, homie!
 
I’m not even going to try to sift through all of this. Suffice to say that I thought the show was middle of the road SW TV; probably the third or fourth best season of SW TV. The fact that this is the one to get canceled doesn’t give me much hope for the future of SW TV. It was definitely uneven and had some weak acting and unpolished scripts, but it felt like it was trying to tell a new story with some thematic depth. The only other show to do that was Andor and that is, to me, so clearly the high water mark of Star Wars—in any medium—since Empire Strikes Back. Im guessing that from here on out we’ll get safe rehashes and Filoniverse crap. For those that enjoy that, I’m happy for you. Hopefully Andor s2 will help to reestablish that Star Wars doesn’t have to be so narrow.
 
Hopefully Andor s2 will help to reestablish that Star Wars doesn’t have to be so narrow.
In my opinion, this is the only piece of "Star Wars"content I have any confidence in for at least the next 3 - 5 years. I wish Tony Gilroy would take over all aspects of Lucasfilm at this juncture.
 
I wish Tony Gilroy would take over all aspects of Lucasfilm at this juncture.
I completely agree, unfortunately I don't think that Andor have been successful enough for LucasFilm to even consider giving him more to do in the franchise. I haven't seen yet the trailer for Sketelon Crew but given that it has been created by the Daniels and David Lowery, even if I don't really like everything they do, I still have hope that they managed to make a good and original show, I guess we will see soon enough what they have in store.
 
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