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The Acolyte - Cancelled

What I actually want for Andor after season 2 is that Gilroy takes some Star Wars fans out of Star Wars with him. I don't want Gilroy tied to the franchise if we can get another Michael Clayton (not literally a sequel) one day, and the writer-driven mid budget drama for adults can win some ground over high concept / franchise stuff. In the same way Christopher Nolan gained a huge fanbase with the language of nerddom from TDK, into his own movies.

Tony Gilroy can make the bureaucratic/political thriller big again pls
 
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The interesting thing about Gilroy, is that he is proof you don't have to be a giant SW nerd to be able to make phenomenal SW stories. Although it delights me to no end to think of all future SW content meeting the minimum of quality seen in Andor, I think it would be a detriment to have all future stories be homogenized to meet such a standard.

Star Wars is interesting. Its a franchise that continues to evolve, for better or worse, over time and as with all long running stories/fictional universes, some people age out of interest. The trailer for Skeleton Crew looks pretty decent. In fact I have some amount of hope that it will be good. Does that mean it's a SW story for me? Maybe not. Time will tell.

As for The Acolyte, right off the bat did anyone feel like another story about Jedi being imperfect/corrupt/etc was unnecessary? I love that concept, but I feel like the prequels already treaded on that ground. I think the whole concept of a Jedi Order can come off as pious and dogmatic, which is an interesting aspect I'm glad is represented in various shows/movies, but I'm ready for some wise wizard/wandering Samurai stories. Making Jedi mysterious and cool and again.
 
For me Star Wars works best when all the mystical Force stuff is on the periphery of the story. The prequels made everything too specific and less mysterious. I like it to be good human stories set in a space opera adventure with thematic depth that feels human and not leaning hard on fantasy tropes. In other words, I don’t want anymore “lore.” Andor is of course that in spades. And the OT really was too. Other than Luke’s training with Yoda, the concepts of the Jedi and Force were kept pretty undefined. I don’t think the word Sith was even ever uttered.
 
Is it possible that Star Wars isn’t really a world as expansive as fans tend to think it is. When you look at the history of the franchise, there’s one beloved trilogy (maybe even a beloved two and a half movies) and then a plethora of ancillary material that generates mostly split opinions. Was the world of Star Wars ever really this big world of possibilities, or was it one fairly simple story that was told in three movies and should have been left alone?
When you think of Star Wars as a fairy tale, do we really want the story of Prince Charming’s childhood, or see how Cinderella’s marriage started to fall apart in its later years, or learn the history of how the kingdom was founded? Star Wars is something that seems in theory like it should be expansive but in practice every attempt at expanding isn’t able to live up to the original.
 
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This year I really got into the meta of SW. Consuming a lot of content about the deeper lore and it's various inspirations. Been really wanting to read Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces.

The OT was a very traditional and simple story. One could look at the OT as being exactly what it needed to be and nothing more. And that it should be nothing more. And to a certain extent I think the Lucas cannon definitely has narrative limitations that you can't really think too hard about unless you only want to notice and fixate on it's flaws.

Things like overly simple control panels with large red buttons, utilitarian architecture with sheer cliff drops and no guard rails, the sentient presence/limitations of droids and their servile roles within galactic economic society, parsecs etc. IMO you kind of need an indefinable mystery to the lore. You can't and shouldn't take it too seriously in some respects. People are getting really mad about The Acolyte's portrayal of open flame in deep space while I think that's incredible respect to the OT's thermo-dynamic world building. Death Star explosion anyone? And that's where it becomes charming IMO again. Something fantastical so to speak. "Fun" as a method of getting the audience on the "suspension of disbelief" bus.

I think one of Lucas' bigger mistakes was simply not making the prequels and his ideal sequels sooner. Not that they would have escaped scrutiny or controversy. But because that further contributed to the diaspora of creative input and creative inspiration. Including that of Star Wars' impact upon sci-fi in general. Apologies for stating the obvious, but under George's semi watchful eye, the Expanded Universe had to pick up the slack to satiate the demand for more SW. And from humble traditional samurai fantasy space opera beginnings, SW moved from vague fantastical suspensions of logic to very specific, rigid, and detailed lore. The way deflector shields work, therefore how ship design does and does not need to be aerodynamic in atmosphere, what manufacturer produced what space ship, how the Millennium Falcon can and cannot crash, how each specific internal crawlspace within a Naboo fighter recycles thrust, etc. Its insane. If it wasn't for the vagueness of soft sci-fi vs hard sci-fi and my lack of knowledge with the topic, I'm sure this would be a better more succinct example.

On one hand it's simplicity, dependence on the hero's journey, and it's classic cinematic inspirations/homages, really make it a pleasant auteur production. Similar to Lucas' other child Indiana Jones, it just became much more of a cultural phenom than could ever be thought possible. Therefore the cat can never go back into the bag. George tried to keep it reigned in by making the prequels upon the structure of the Tragedy. Which I think was a smart move. At least on paper. Again, the timing of when those films came out played a lot into how that was regarded. And over time I have come to respect Lucas more and more (as opposed to just hating him) because he has always had the gumption to give fans what they needed, not what they wanted. And I think his absense is felt in how the sequel trillogy came out as more of the same SW inspired SW.

Which is funny because, to its detriment, The Acolyte tried to be inspired by what inpsired George (Kurosawa, etc). And even within the established cannon of the High Republic (of which the Acolyte takes place), there are lots of discrepancies as well as the ruination of beloved High Republic characters.

Knowing how to walk the line is sometimes only discovered when you go over it. And this franchise has grown so big that it cannot please everyone. I've heard fan proposals of stories so far in the future of the universe that its essentially a franchise restart. And they honestly sound amazing. For right now the trend in story telling for most long running franchises (Marvel, LOTR, etc) seems to be the filling of every infintesmal gap in the chronology. And I think thats extremely boring when you already have a start and end point dictated by the gaps in world building and all you get is a tiny morsel of a story that does't and cannot hit as hard. Then again, I felt that Andor was one of the best things I've ever watched. Not just as a SW product.
 
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This show had a live action lightsaber whip. That alone tells you they really didn't know what they were doing.

Rule nr 1: not everything that's been in comic books needs to be on the big screen.

Also, anyone who says it doesn't break the canon of the original trilogy is just willingly ignoring the whole chosen one thing. The show litterally devalues the birth of Anakin .And I thought a force baby was pretty stupid to begin with, so doubling down on this just extremely dumb. Also, who needs a lesbian force-baby-making-cult in Star Wars? (never thought I'd write that sentence in my life) This definitely isn't for the established fanbase, so they shouldn't be suprised it alienated them. It's like me putting guns and violence in RuPauls drag race and then acting suprised it didn't pan out. Even worse, have the lead make a cringe diss rap video calling everyone racist. This show deserves all disinterest just for that fact alone.
 
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Is it possible that Star Wars isn’t really a world as expansive as fans tend to think it is. When you look at the history of the franchise, there’s one beloved trilogy (maybe even a beloved two and a half movies) and then a plethora of ancillary material that generates mostly split opinions. Was the world of Star Wars ever really this big world of possibilities, or was it one fairly simple story that was told in three movies and should have been left alone?
When you think of Star Wars as a fairy tale, do we really want the story of Prince Charming’s childhood, or see how Cinderella’s marriage started to fall apart in its later years, or learn the history of how the kingdom was founded? Star Wars is something that seems in theory like it should be expansive but in practice every attempt at expanding isn’t able to live up to the original.
it's just a matter of taste. For some people, Star Wars was a set of films released in the 70s and 80s and was a magical part of their childhood and nothing else really matters. For other people, Those films were not really their cup of tea, but other movies and/or shows have been pivotal. My favourite SW film is revenge of the sith, and I love Clone Wars, the EddieDean version. I used to love looking through my Ralph Mcquarrie art book and I absolutely loved the KOTOR games.
We are all going to have our own favourites and the extended lore that Lucas developed is what allows for that.

edit: I suppose I could say, for me it is Ralph Mcquarie that defined what Star Wars is. That is why when I look at Skeleton Crew, it doesn't really work for me. It doesn't look like Star Wars to me. The one thing that really drew me into the Mandalorian was actually that end credits sequence where they just showed a ton of art that really had the feel of Mcquarrie's work.
 
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I completely agree, unfortunately I don't think that Andor have been successful enough for LucasFilm to even consider giving him more to do in the franchise.
I honestly believe Andor was a casualty of too many consecutive Disney Star Wars disappointments; the IP has been even further damaged over the past 2 years as well.
 
This show had a live action lightsaber whip. That alone tells you they really didn't know what they were doing.

Rule nr 1: not everything that's been in comic books needs to be on the big screen.

Also, anyone who says it doesn't break the canon of the original trilogy is just willingly ignoring the whole chosen one thing. The show litterally devalues the birth of Anakin .And I thought a force baby was pretty stupid to begin with, so doubling down on this just extremely dumb. Also, who needs a lesbian force-baby-making-cult in Star Wars? (never thought I'd write that sentence in my life) This definitely isn't for the established fanbase, so they shouldn't be suprised it alienated them. It's like me putting guns and violence in RuPauls drag race and then acting suprised it didn't pan out. Even worse, have the lead make a cringe diss rap video calling everyone racist. This show deserves all disinterest just for that fact alone.

it's just a matter of taste. For some people, Star Wars was a set of films released in the 70s and 80s and was a magical part of their childhood and nothing else really matters. For other people, Those films were not really their cup of tea, but other movies and/or shows have been pivotal. My favourite SW film is revenge of the sith, and I love Clone Wars, the EddieDean version. I used to love looking through my Ralph Mcquarrie art book and I absolutely loved the KOTOR games.
We are all going to have our own favourites and the extended lore that Lucas developed is what allows for that.

edit: I suppose I could say, for me it is Ralph Mcquarie that defined what Star Wars is. That is why when I look at Skeleton Crew, it doesn't really work for me. It doesn't look like Star Wars to me. The one thing that really drew me into the Mandalorian was actually that end credits sequence where they just showed a ton of art that really had the feel of Mcquarrie's work.
These two consecutive posts are really the heart of it. Star Wars means something different to everyone. I couldn’t give two shits about the lore, canon, or the Chosen One. And I absolutely hate the prequels. More than the sequels. I’m happy for those that like that stuff and all the Filoni stuff, it’s just really too bad that when there’s something isn’t their cup of tea a vocal minority has to shout down those that do like it. Acolyte was far from perfect and mostly not my cup of tea, but who cares. Star Wars is the very worst fan base in a lot of ways. And they seemingly get what they deserve.
 
I honestly believe Andor was a casualty of too many consecutive Disney Star Wars disappointments; the IP has been even further damaged over the past 2 years as well.
I can confirm I didn't watch it for this reason. If disney can't handle star wars with Obi Wan in it how could they possibly handle a serious setting without Jedi at all?

When I finally watched it I was pleasantly surprised, but the damage was done for me. I don't think the brand can recover to its former glory. I mean just remember how exited everyone used to be for new star wars films, compared to people just shrugging now.

They underestimated the loyalty of the fans, thinking they would love anything with the Star Wars label on it, no matter what they do or say. Instead of being loyal to the brand, fans are loyal to what the brand used to be.
 
I honestly believe Andor was a casualty of too many consecutive Disney Star Wars disappointments; the IP has been even further damaged over the past 2 years as well.

It was also a bit slow and not really on-brand with the classic Star Wars look and feel. Don't get me wrong, it had some good parts, but it felt more like Firefly than Star Wars for the most part, but without the fun vibe of Firefly, unfortunately.

I understand that not every world is going to look and feel like the main franchise, but Mandalorian bridged that gap with a classic character style, while Andor didn't have a strong and consistent stylistic tie to the franchise. So it's understandable that even if the production was solid it wouldn't generate as much brand crossover interest/loyalty, especially given the plethora of shows that have more of a connection.
 
These two consecutive posts are really the heart of it. Star Wars means something different to everyone. I couldn’t give two shits about the lore, canon, or the Chosen One. And I absolutely hate the prequels. More than the sequels. I’m happy for those that like that stuff and all the Filoni stuff, it’s just really too bad that when there’s something isn’t their cup of tea a vocal minority has to shout down those that do like it. Acolyte was far from perfect and mostly not my cup of tea, but who cares. Star Wars is the very worst fan base in a lot of ways. And they seemingly get what they deserve.

Let the records show I hold no love for the prequels, but for entirely different reasons from the sequels. The prequels are imo flawed films, but at least they had some resemblance of a vision and pushed the envelope in the visual effects department.

And we got a lot of memes. Hello there!
 
The thing about Andor being somewhat incompatible with classic Star Wars- is that it can cultivate a new audience.
 
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Are any of the new Star Wars projects really drawing in new Star Wars fans, though? Has anyone become a fan of the franchise because of liking one of the new shows? Or is it more just that someone enjoyed that show and won’t necessarily crossover to try out other aspects of the brand? In 1999, people were excited for the prequels because they’d loved the original trilogy and then again in 2015 people were excited for the sequels but still based on love of the OT. The sequels were even marketed as a return to “proper” Star Wars after the disappointment of the prequels.
As with any franchise, each new entry will appeal to someone but how far can the property really continue to be stretched based on the popularity of movies that are almost fifty years old now? Just look at what’s become of Indiana Jones. Wouldn’t it be nice if some of these things could end at some point?
 
They need to encourage skipping if they want to make all these shows, anyway. If Acolyte or Andor don't hit the numbers or broad excitement of before, not the audience's problem, and just a reflection where Star Wars is, either from choices made or time passed. Lean into it
 
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Are any of the new Star Wars projects really drawing in new Star Wars fans, though? Has anyone become a fan of the franchise because of liking one of the new shows?
I'm not really active in Star Wars communities, but I've seen many new Star Trek fans who are fans specifically due to the new shows (much to my chagrin), so I think the same has to be true for Star Wars.
(This is why I'm a firm believer that spoiler warnings should still be given even for notable and oft misquoted lines from Empire Strikes Back, for example.)
 
Are any of the new Star Wars projects really drawing in new Star Wars fans, though? Has anyone become a fan of the franchise because of liking one of the new shows? Or is it more just that someone enjoyed that show and won’t necessarily crossover to try out other aspects of the brand? In 1999, people were excited for the prequels because they’d loved the original trilogy and then again in 2015 people were excited for the sequels but still based on love of the OT. The sequels were even marketed as a return to “proper” Star Wars after the disappointment of the prequels.
As with any franchise, each new entry will appeal to someone but how far can the property really continue to be stretched based on the popularity of movies that are almost fifty years old now? Just look at what’s become of Indiana Jones. Wouldn’t it be nice if some of these things could end at some point?

I know plenty of people who prefer the PT simply because they grew up with it and the nostalgia.

That said I think star wars as a brand works best in movie format. And not the 'let's pump out as many shit as possible' format.
 
One of my sons (11yo) has loved the Disney SW. But live action only. He won’t even give the animated stuff a chance. But he likes other animated stuff. 🤷🏻
 
In regards to Andor:

It was also a bit slow and not really on-brand with the classic Star Wars look and feel. Don't get me wrong, it had some good parts, but it felt more like Firefly than Star Wars for the most part, but without the fun vibe of Firefly, unfortunately.

I understand that not every world is going to look and feel like the main franchise, but Mandalorian bridged that gap with a classic character style, while Andor didn't have a strong and consistent stylistic tie to the franchise. So it's understandable that even if the production was solid it wouldn't generate as much brand crossover interest/loyalty, especially given the plethora of shows that have more of a connection.
For better or worse, Andor is an interesting moment for the franchise. I know that Rogue One has it's detractors, but I liked it a lot. Even so, when they announced a show centering entirely around some one off character from that movie, I honestly didn't know why. Nothing about that made me want to tune in and I really couldn't care less. So really giving it a chance was really just that, a chance. And I was absolutely blown away. I'll save you all from me gushing about it.
My feelings aside, I can see why it was a hard show to sell for most audiences. It's a slow burn, dark, dystopian, and politically relevant drama. Some of those things I find to be very true to the spirit of Star Wars, but also things a lot of people aren't looking for in their Star Wars. Even now, I encourage just about everyone I know to give the show a chance. I personally am turned off when someone begs me to watch something, so I try to keep my points brief and poignant. But wow, it's like pulling teeth to get anyone on both sides of the fence to give it a chance. Hardcore SW fans and new comers a like.

As for the Acolyte, I have no experience with any of the High Republic novels/graphic novels so I am not a part of the built in audience for that world. And thats fine. Star Wars is big enough to offer a multitude of pleasures. Part of that is variety, and part of that is nostalgic. Being reductive of anyone's enjoyment is not the way forward.

A big problem I think is the hype machine. Culture War bs aside, you type Star Wars into youtube and you'll be blasted with SW content creators posting reaction videos to every nugget of news about an upcoming show or etc. And I really don't blame them because that's their thing. But I couldn't imagine having to hang on the words of every speaker at Star Wars Celebration hyping up their upcoming movie or show. Of course they are going to use hyperbole to get you excited. They are going to say it's the "rematch of the century" and make all these self serving claims about being dedicated to the original trilogy and how they are life long Star Wars fans or how this will be a return to form. And for a fanbase to pick apart every thing they are claiming and making theories about what it means and what the new show will be about, just sounds like a recipie for never ending disappointment. Not to mention the second hand exposure to negative engagement of clickbait yt videos. Even if you don't watch those videos, just being exposed to the barrage of thumbnails attempting to enrage/engage you is gross and exhausting. Star Wars outrage has unfortunately become a business. Thats why I usually wait for all of a season to release before I watch it.

Another interesting thing I find which ties into the roots of this franchise, the times in which these projects were made, and the awkward way in which each new story is supposed to fill in a moment in a galactic timeline that ultimately ends with a movie/show made in 2005/2016/2022 leading directly into a film released in 1977. I am personally all for the preservation of the OT in their original forms as part of cinematic history. But due to the nature of these collaborative story telling projects (especially in the absence of George), retroactive alterations to preserve continuity make for a more cohesive experience. So while I dislike replacing the original voice actor for Boba Fett with Timura Morrison, I appreciate its effect on the series.
So with that in mind, I feel like not enough attention is paid to the cinematic meta visuals of the series. That being the modern desire for clean/pure/pristine picture quality shot in digital always being the highest standard the series is aiming for. While ultimately all of these interquel stories are made for and because of the 1977 original. So much so that the only real option people seem to keep entertaining is to make something produced with the film making tools of the 70's look more and more homogenized to fit in next to it's modern counterparts. Which will never fully be realized.
So rather than forcing a square peg into a round hole, I feel like it's easier and way more endearing to have the modern counterparts adhere to the original aesthetic. That being older film stock looks/color grading, film grain, imperfections (visual and audio), etc. I don't mean to say everything should be grindhoused, but I think this aspect of Star War's origin and it's fundamental charm is akin to things like fire in space, control panels with giant red buttons, and less specificity in how things work. This definitely is something that isn't for everyone, but it's something I think should be considered more.

I think it would be, not perfect, but incredibly interesting to see how people would feel watching the special editions of the OT with more of a classic film stock look as well as de-enhanced spfx shots. Like making the beak on the Sarlac less obviously cgi (by way of film grain, halation, gate weave, etc) and a little more of its time by reducing the framerate for a more stop motion look. Like the opposite of Scribbling Man's Jason and Argonauts edits.

I don't think this way of thinking and filmmaking solves fundamental problems with a show or movie, but check out this thread about Dr. Dre's new color matching/prediction algorithm. Being able to generate a color grade from unrelated sources to match the looks of other films, he uses a shot of the cantina from ANH to color grade a similar scene in The Mandalorian.


Again, what does this really change? Not much. But oh so cool and I think that just makes everything fit a little nicer.


Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED talk.
 
I know this site wants us to dance around the elephant in the room. But the truth is Star Wars that is representative of a diverse world (galaxy) is disproportionately beleaguered by “fans” seeking to destroy it before it even has a chance. This is unfortunate of course. But even discounting the larger societal impact, I think it makes legitimate criticism difficult as well. The show was far from perfect. But you will never convince me it was worse than Boba Fett, Ahsoka, Kenobi, or even the latest season of Mandalorian. And almost all of the most vocal criticism of those shows was of its minority representation. Is this the legacy of Star Wars fandom?
 
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