The Counselor (2013)

[Wakeupkeo]

I liked this movie when it came out despite the problems. 

Just watched it again, and this scene makes it worth saving:

Even now in these times it seems like it could be a great tale (the monologues are amazing) of dumb confident cocky anybody (the counselor) trying to do a deal like he has dreamed of with everyone telling him how dumb an idea it is, and then having his first deal go bad and him not realizing the danger he has gotten himself into until its too late.  I love Reiner as an old misogynist that is getting bored and disillusioned as well as meeting his match in Malkina. My plan is to take out as much of the sappy love scenes without removing their intent, will still try to show the relationship and Laura's naivete. Remove some of the excessive pompous lines while keeping Malkina fierce and cold and the boys obliviously spoiled.

Open to title suggestions relating to these goals as well as wish lists on the edits!

EDIT:________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Done!

"The House Always Wins in the End." 

Synopsis: A dumb confident cocky anybody (the Counselor) trying to do a deal like he has dreamed of, with everyone telling him how dumb an idea it is, and then having his first deal go bad and him not truly realizing the danger he has gotten himself into until its too late.  An old misogynist (Reiner) is meeting his match and truly falling for the strong and independent Malkina, and it scares the crap out of him. The Cartel wins in the end.

For MANY reasons, I ended up removing the whole Malkina subplot and kept her to a simple strong woman that was too intimidating for Reiner. Then, there simply wasn't enough character development (with good writing) for any of the women IMO, so I ended up focusing on the POV of the Counselor mainly, removing all the scenes without the Counselor or Reiner involved. With a tandem story of the drug shipment's journey from Juarez to Chicago. 

Initial Run Time: 2h21m
New Edit Run Time: 1h39m

1920x800 AAC 320 kbps, 48 kHz Stereo

Cut List:

• Removed initial horrible bedroom scene.
  
• Removed Reiner and Malkina first cats 'n' cocktails scene.
  
• Removed Counselor walking in Amsterdam.
  
• Trimmed Diamond dealer scene slightly to make the Counselor seem more informed about diamonds.
  
• Moved and trimmed proposal scene to seem less awkward and removed piano player with cheetah.
  
• Trimmed Reiner office scene with the Counselor slightly to remove "Barbados" part and implication that the office is Malkina's.
  
• Trimmed Biker and woman conversation to removed "systemic reaction" line, and moved to after prison conversation to connect importance. Biker's arrival home also trimmed to get to the point that he has a dog.
  
• Trimmed Reiner and Counselor's discussion confirming deal to remove Counselor "needing" cash, which is never explained. Now it seems like he is just greedy.
•  
• Trimmed Westray and Counselor scene slightly to remove awkward joke about doing math in someone's head, and Westray's look at the server just for the timing. He likes women just as much as Reiner, but he is smooth about it.
  
• Moved and trimmed Laura and Malkina pool scene.
  
• Trimmed prison scene trimmed to remove "or time of day" line about speed. (we get it.)
  
• Trimmed Reiner's story in the club to get more to the point. (We know he a "talker" but alright already, this is as painful as listening to one of these guys IRL)
  
• Removed Malkina conversation with hit-people. She is not secretly taking the shipment. She is instead simply a cynical, strong, independent woman in this edit.
  
• Removed Malkina and Priest scene.
  
• Removed Laura and Counselor "phone sex attempt" scene.
  
• Trimmed Car sex discussion scene to remove mention of how long in the past this was, and the demeaning "bottomfeeder" line (kept a catfish on an aquarium wall part though...)
  
• Removed hitman at cycle dealership and hitman's wire setup to just the execution, and removed him retrieving head.
  
• Removed Laura's call to Malkina.
  
• Trimmed Counselor's discussion with Westray at the hotel bar.
  
• Trimmed Laura and the Counselor's discussion about Boise to seem more naturally urgent.
  
• Trimmed Reiner and Malkina's poolside discussion slightly to end with her assessing the situation and saying she is gone at the first sign of danger, to show Malkina was the ONLY one smart enough to take care of herself. This is the last we see of Maklina.
  
• Removed Malkina's balcony phone call.
  
• Removed cheetah at the family pool scene.
  
• Trimmed Westray's arrival to London to remove the hotel interaction, and moved scene to just before the truck lands in Chicago.
  
• Moved El Jefe scene to after Westray's murder.
  
• Removed scene with Malkina and female assassin.
  
• Shortened Westray's death scene to begin when Westray is walking down stairs.
  
• Removed Malkina from Westray's assassination. The implication is that Westray's death is still due to the bad deal, and only people allowed to be alive are still alive.
  
• The diner/bar scene trimmed to go directly from the bar owner discussing his dead family to the Counselor on the phone with El Jefe.
  
• Removed the Counselor's alleyway walk, hotel room arrival.
  
• Snuff film delivery scene trimmed. Ends with dump image, roll credits.
  
• Removed Malkina's discussion with her banker. 

PM me for a link if interested! I welcome feedback and recommendations on whether it is submission-worthy.

 

[Last Impressions]

I liked this movie when it came out despite the problems. 

Just watched it again, and this scene makes it worth saving:

Even now in these times it seems like it could be a great tale (the monologues are amazing) of dumb confident cocky anybody (the counselor) trying to do a deal like he has dreamed of with everyone telling him how dumb an idea it is, and then having his first deal go bad and him not realizing the danger he has gotten himself into until its too late.  I love Reiner as an old misogynist that is getting bored and disillusioned as well as meeting his match in Malkina. My plan is to take out as much of the sappy love scenes without removing their intent, will still try to show the relationship and Laura's naivete. Remove some of the excessive pompous lines while keeping Malkina fierce and cold and the boys obliviously spoiled.

Will have first edit soon! Open to title suggestions relating to these goals as well as wish lists on the edits!

Cool you'll save me a job  . I purchased the Bluray about 5 years ago to do an edit of my own but never got around to it. It's been so long since i watched it - i can't even remember why i had the urge to tamper with it  , but i know i was absolutely mesmerised by the scene in your link...very powerful. Fassbender is a great actor. I'll have to put it on my re-watch list.

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Done!

I ended up removing the whole Malkina subplot and kept her to a simple strong woman that was to intimidating for Reiner. There simply wasn't enough character development (with good writing) for the women IMO, so better to reduce them to supporting characters than keep them as flat main characters. Rather than Malkina manipulating the situation the whole time, the story simply becomes about naivete, misogynistic douchebags, and the consequences of a deal gone bad. The Cartel wins in the end.

Initial Run Time: 2h21m
New Edit Run Time: 1h47m

1920x800 AAC 320 kbps, 48 kHz Stereo

Cut List:

• Initial horrible bedroom scene removed.
  
• Reiner and Malkina first cocktails scene removed.
  
• Diamond dealer scene trimmed to make the Counselor seem more informed about diamonds.
  
• Reiner office scene with the Counselor trimmed slightly.
  
• Biker and woman conversation trimmed to removed "systemic reaction" line.
  
• Proposal scene trimmed to seem less awkward and removed piano player with cheetah.
  
• Laura and Malkina scene trimmed to seem less mean to each other, just very different.
  
• Westray and Counselor scene slightly trimmed to remove awkward joke about doing math in someone's head, and Westray's look at the server just for the timing. He likes women just as much as Reiner, but he is smooth about it.
  
• Prison scene trimmed to remove "or time of day" line about speed.
  
• Shortened Reiner's story in the club.
  
• Removed Malkina conversation with hit-people. She is not secretly taking the shipment. She is instead simply a cynical, strong, independent woman in this edit.
  
• Malkina and Priest scene removed.
  
• Laura and Counselor "phone sex attempt" scene removed.
  
• Car sex discussion scene trimmed to remove mention of how long in the past this was, and the demeaning "bottomfeeder" line (kept a catfish on an aquarium wall part though...)
  
• Removed Reiner's line "line being in love with a peaceful death" to add suspicion to Malkina.
  
• Trimmed Laura's call to Malkina.
  
• Slightly trimmed Counselor's discussion with Westray at the hotel bar.
  
• Trimmed Laura and the Counselor's discussion about Boise to seem more naturally urgent (no laughing)
  
• Trimmed Reiner and Malkina's poolside discussion slightly to end with her assessing the situation and saying she is gone at the first sign of danger, to show Malkina was the ONLY one smart enough to take care of herself. This is the last we see of Maklina.
  
• Removed Malkina's balcony phone call.
  
• Removed cheetah at the family pool scene.
  
• Trimmed Westray's arrival to London to remove the hotel interaction, and moved scene to just before the truck lands in Chicago.
  
• Scene with Malkina and female assassin removed.
  
• Shortened Westray's death scene to begin when Westray is moving through the revolving doorway. (Still probably too long)
  
• Malkina removed from Westray's assassination. The implication is that Westray's death is still due to the bad deal, and only people allowed to be alive are still alive.
  
• Removed the Counselor's alleyway walk, hotel room arrival, delivery of the snuff film.
• Removed Malkina's discussion with her banker. (If she is not behind the murder of Westray, then her plan to go to Hong Kong no longer seems out of the reach of the cartel.)
  ​​​​​​​
• The diner/bar scene trimmed to go directly from the bar owner discussing his dead family to the Counselor on the phone with El Jefe, directly to ending the film with the body at the dump. Not a happy ending here. (Final shot of anonymity parallels the opening shot anonymity, and ending El Jefe monologue parallels beginning diamond merchant's opening monologue.)

PM me for a link if interested! I welcome feedback and recommendations on whether it is submission-worthy.

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Completed and ready for submission to the Academy.

 

[Last Impressions]

I finally got around to re-watching the Counselor again this morning and agree that most of the cuts/trims in your list are much needed especially the god awful opening bedroom scene..a total cringefest. I also agree that you have at least cut or trimmed one of Reiner's rants about the mysteries of women especially the one in the bar.
Regarding the scene with the Counselor and Westray i think i would have probably left the maths joke in and the perv at the waitress and somehow trimmed the mentioning of the strangulation and beheading device...it was fine during the conversation but knowing how Westray dies it just feels set up, there are a million ways to die and he talks about the one that will ultimately end him..i have yet to watch your edit to fully compare but will do so in the next couple of days.

Unless you are going for a generic gangster/drug film i think the limited success of the film is that is has an underlying philosophical tone running throughout it...which does sometimes full flat on its face but sometimes does get you thinking about life, greed, money, despair , death (and how to accept it) and a focus on all of life consequences for our actions. I especially loved the diamond dealer Bruno Ganz monologue, in Amsterdam, which i think you have trimmed. Also the women assassin(?) who refuses  to take the money is sort of poignant as she'll have to live with the consequence of her action as does the Counselor. The closing scene is relevant and although its not a great spectacle i feel that it maybe should be reinstated/trimmed as it mirrors the reason Malika has the big cats and the love of hunting. I get the point but its just not executed very well.

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Right on! Awesome if you get a look, I think I trimmed things just enough for you still.  Unfortunately I didn't keep the storylines at all due to the terrible dialogue of Malkina throughout.

One thing, Westray talks about snuff film and forshadows Laura's demise, and her death isn't shown, so I kept that in. Reiner discusses the beheading.

 

[TV's Frink]

Looks like this was submitted so I've moved it to Pending Approval.

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Looks like this was submitted so I've moved it to Pending Approval.

Thank you!

 

[TM2YC]

I bought Ridley Scott's 2013 film 'The Counsellor' on blu-ray when it came out because I dig all the extra content Scott puts on his discs, two cuts, commentary etc. However, I tried watching it, got bored by the opening act and it's just sat there ever since. Reading that this cut begins by removing several of those early scenes I was intrigued. Happily, this edit is seamlessly edited, I couldn't detect a single technical flaw, or noticeable cut. Compared to the Extended Cut, this is 40 minutes shorter and just over 90 minutes in total, transforming the movie into a tightly paced crime thriller.

I loved the decision to remove Malkina as the antagonist/agent-provocateur, or whatever she was. It makes the story feel unique because it's now about a drug deal that goes bad pretty much randomly, not as a result of any action, or inaction by the characters. The Cartel instantly moves to clean it up, recover the merchandise and kill and punish those available to take responsibility. The characters didn't do anything wrong and can't do anything to undo it, they just should never have stepped into that world in the first place (or gotten out sooner)... which is a repeated theme in the dialogue. This change really focuses the meaning of the narrative.

So this edit is easily approved!

There are a few suggestions though:

00.04.53 - There are no subtitles for the truck drivers here and no subtitles for anybody not speaking English throughout the film. It's only a line here or there, so is this correct?
00.16.15 - It's starting to feel weird that we're still discussing the importance of this "Laura" character but haven't actually seen her, or seen her together with The Counsellor after 16 minutes.
00.20.04 - Is there any reason why this first Laura scene at the restaurant couldn't be moved forward to after the diamond-ring scene at 00.11.52? It would introduce her much earlier and it would flow naturally out of the earlier scene (aquiring diamond ring --> giving her the ring), instead of being placed between (and interrupting) two Reiner scenes about setting up the drug deal. If you moved it earlier, the narrative would flow smoother, plus it establishes The Counsellor as a (soon to be) happily married man, in contrast to the womanising Reiner and Westray. When Reiner is going on about women, we don't know that The Counsellor doesn't share his outlook, after all they seem to be friends?

I also think you could use one more scene featuring The Counsellor and Laura being a happy couple, or just a little more of Laura, somewhere in the middle. We can experience the loss of her character vicariously through The Counsellor's pain but it'd be stronger if she was somebody we had come to know as well.

EDIT: Yeah, just checked my blu-ray and at least some of those scenes should be subtitled. So that's the only thing that needs added before you release this.

 

[Wakeupkeo]

 

Wow, this is great feedback! I think the overall goal of the edit was achieved!

Not only is it good news that the edit was seamless, but the idea to move the proposal scene sooner is genius! That should not be a problem at all!

Two questions:
For the subtitles - are you saying I should burn (embed) subtitles into the film for the few times its relevant? Or that I should provide a subtitle track to accompany it? I can do both, but not sure the direction I should take...

Adding another scene with Laura - I had gone back and forth with keeping or removing a shortened version of the Malkina/Laura pool scene, where it established the duality of nature between the two women, but I always felt it made Laura seem TOO native. The other scenes with Laura seem to stem from the establishing relationship shown there, so I think it might be the right scene to add back in, and I can move it to after the Counselor first talks with Westray. Since the proposal will be moved up sooner, and the polo grounds scene is closer to when she gets kidnapped, that seems about the middle. Do you see any issues with this direction or have any other ideas?

Thank you again for taking the time to view this edit and provide such constructive feedback!


Edit: I made the Proposal scene move, and transitions will work great. But it brings up one possible question - initially I was using the proposal as kind of a factor for the Counselor's decision to be involved. It was also gave space between Reiner and the Counselor talking in person at Reiner's house, and Reiner and the Counselor talking on the phone when the Counselor confirms his involvement. Now the only thing remaining between these two conversations between these two characters is some of the journey of the truck. Do you think will compromises the story flow, or we "along for the ride" by now?

 

[TM2YC]

the idea to move the proposal scene sooner is genius! That should not be a problem at all!

Hope it that works then. Watch out for any lines that make no sense out of order but I didn't remember there being any.

For the subtitles - are you saying I should burn (embed) subtitles into the film for the few times its relevant?

Just for the scenes where they are needed. Mostly it's the cutaways to the drug septic truck driving around, where people are speaking Spanish. I got the meaning of the short scenes without subtitles but they should have them. You could either burn them in, or create a separate subtitle file.

I use Subtitle-Edit when I need to make or edit subtitles (as a separate file). It's free and pretty easy to use once you figure it out:

https://www.videohelp.com/software/Subtitle-Edit

Adding another scene with Laura - I had gone back and forth with keeping or removing a shortened version of the Malkina/Laura pool scene, where it established the duality of nature between the two women, but I always felt it made Laura seem TOO native. The other scenes with Laura seem to stem from the establishing relationship shown there, so I think it might be the right scene to add back in, and I can move it to after the Counselor first talks with Westray. Since the proposal will be moved up sooner, and the polo grounds scene is closer to when she gets kidnapped, that seems about the middle. Do you see any issues with this direction or have any other ideas?

I'm not familiar enough with the uncut film to make any suggestions on what Laura scenes could be included. I was just assuming that Penélope Cruz must have been in a lot of scenes that were cut. If adding that pool scene back in compromises the removal of the Malkina subplot, I'd leave it out though. You'd know the film better than me.

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Just for the scenes where they are needed. Mostly it's the cutaways to the drug septic truck driving around, where people are speaking Spanish.

I might have to go with a separate file for all subtitles, as I remember that I left burned subtitles out on purpose. I also wondered what the truck drivers were saying along the way, but realized how awesome that was:

My intent might not have landed, but the thought was that if the viewer knows Spanish, then that viewer would know more of what is going on around the Counselor than one that doesn't. But the Counselor doesn't, so the viewer is not automatically given these hints either. Hopefully this helps amplify the feeling of being "out of your element" like it did for me. If the subtitles are burned in, that feeling might be lessened. The only time time text is on the screen besides credits is for locations.

Open to reasons for burning the subtitles nonetheless? Maybe just make two versions?

 

[TM2YC]

Just for the scenes where they are needed. Mostly it's the cutaways to the drug septic truck driving around, where people are speaking Spanish.

I might have to go with a separate file for all subtitles, as I remember that I left burned subtitles out on purpose. I also wondered what the truck drivers were saying along the way, but realized how awesome that was:

My intent might not have landed, but the thought was that if the viewer knows Spanish, then that viewer would know more of what is going on around the Counselor than one that doesn't. But the Counselor doesn't, so the viewer is not automatically given these hints either. Hopefully this helps amplify the feeling of being "out of your element" like it did for me. If the subtitles are burned in, that feeling might be lessened. The only time time text is on the screen besides credits is for locations.

Open to reasons for burning the subtitles nonetheless? Maybe just make two versions?

It sounds like making a separate subtitle file is the way to go then. Then viewers can watch with, or without subtitles fro the Spanish parts. It worked okay without but I definitely would've switched them on if I'd had them.

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Done and ready for release.

 

[Last Impressions]

I'm glad this edit has been approved. You made some great changes, however, i think i would have made a few other amendments and maybe kept in a scene or two. I would definitely have kept in the scene when they prepare the wire to decapitate the biker...just to add a sense of what's coming.

Do you have a version 2 or did i watch the submitted version?

 

[Wakeupkeo]

I'm glad this edit has been approved. You made some great changes, however, i think i would have made a few other amendments and maybe kept in a scene or two. I would definitely have kept in the scene when they prepare the wire to decapitate the biker...just to add a sense of what's coming.

Do you have a version 2 or did i watch the submitted version?

Thanks! The only changes since the version you saw was in the latest version was that I moved the proposal scene sooner, and added back in the Malkina/Laura pool scene, recommended by TM2YC for better presence-building of Laura.

I have issues with the wire scene, personally... The guy is in the sunlight preparing the wire - and waits in darkness for the biker to come. If the road is used with any frequency, then they guy has the wire out a LONG time. I thought it best to remove any confusion there. But hey, personal preferences, right? LOL

And now the movie comes with a meticulously created subtitle file for the whole movie that only translates one scene of Spanish dialogue, so I doubt I will do any more updates for the official release. But... what other amendments were you thinking?

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Recently rewatched my edit and found a couple audio errors so I decided to revisit. This edit also uses subtitles so I got to play with some of the new subtitle features in the latest Premiere Pro update. And with my experience playing with the audio for my Tron edit, I am also updating this edit to 5.1 audio.

Fixed the couple audio errors, and @Last Impressions - I ended up adding in more of the preparation for the biker decapitation: I brought back the dealership visit, and the truck driving to the location. I removed the wire setup itself, but kept the light adjustment, then after the decap happens, I added back the wire cutting and some of the retrieval of the head. I think it worked out great, thanks for the advice.

Also, working with subtitles within Premiere pro was SO much easier than adjusting time stamps in Subtitle Edit. However upon export, the color codes within added a "FF" to the hex codes, which brought a harsh default cyan color whenever another color was called out, so I still had to go in with Subtitle Edit to fix that. But It was still LIGHT YEARS better than before, and I plan to work with subtitles from the start for any *NEW* projects.

Anyways, to sum up, basically a new 5.1 audio version is now available, with a minor edit suggested by @Last Impressions.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Woo hoo! Thank you @El Marv for the awesome review!!! And the first official review on IDFB for my first approved edit!

This was a definitive "Bad Movie Made Less Bad" edit!

 

[El Marv]

Thank you for making that movie more enjoyable

 

[Wakeupkeo]

Thank you @walkerw for the kind review, I am so glad you enjoyed it! Love all the great notes and comments, you definitely got my vision!