• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot, especially our Own the Source rule. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Please read our Rules & Guidelines

    Vote now in FEOTM Reboot WAVE 2! MEGATHREAD

The Hobbit: the original two-film structure

AdamDens

Member
Faneditor
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Trophy Points
6
Today I would love to share with you a passion project I've worked on in pretty much all of my free time for almost two years. It concerns a fan-edit of The Hobbit, in an attempt to recreate the original two-film structure. In doing so, I've created two films: The Gathering of the Clouds & There and Back Again, both to be released on July 20th.

The motivation behind this edit is in no way a critique of the original trilogy. I do not claim that I've made a better version, or that anything was wrong with the original films. They are pieces of art, and I admire them greatly. This project was instead born out of a lingering curiosity about the original two-film script and the different structure that the films would have had because of it. This curiosity, combined with my passion for everything Tolkien and my need for continuous exercise in editing, led me to committing to this two year project. 

Because my film school offers all the post-production tools I could possibly need, I was able to finish this project in a much better quality then I originally suspected. I've tried to create a completely professional end result, and owe a lot of thanks to the Royal Institute for Theatre, Cinema and Sound and my professors, who answered my questions when I had them. Without them, this production would be far lesser in quality. 

As it stands, I'm extremely proud to present the trailer for the end result of this exercise. The films feature; 
- a new shading/color correction inspired by The Lord of the Rings 
- a newly mixed 5.1 surround mix 
- restructured plotlines, inspired by Tolkien lore 
- more than 40 minutes of extended and deleted footage reinserted 
- a tone more similar to that of The Lord of the Rings 

TRAILER: 
 
Awesome! I'm always excited for Hobbit re-edits.

Out of curiosity, have you watched any other fan edits of The Hobbit trilogy? L8wrtr, Eldusto84 (MapleFilms), Samspider3, Menbailee and DrFontane have all made 2-part Hobbit edits similar to what you're describing.

Not to discourage you from releasing yours, of course, you've probably got several cuts that make your edit stand out from theirs'.

Welcome to fanedit.org! The more the merrier :D

EDIT: Aww, including The Lord of the Rings in your trailer was a nice touch ;)
 
Zamros said:
Awesome! I'm always excited for Hobbit re-edits.

Out of curiosity, have you watched any other fan edits of The Hobbit trilogy? L8wrtr, Eldusto84 (MapleFilms), Samspider3, Menbailee and DrFontane have all made 2-part Hobbit edits similar to what you're describing.

Not to discourage you from releasing yours, of course, you've probably got several cuts that make your edit stand out from theirs'.

Welcome to fanedit.org! The more the merrier :D

EDIT: Aww, including The Lord of the Rings in your trailer was a nice touch ;)

Thanks for the reply! I have watched several fan-edits, though not all of the ones you listed. I think my take will offer several unique changes.

I have not simply cut the film down, but have placed several scenes at a completely different point in the film, such as the Moria flashback, the High Fells sequence and several other scenes I don't want to spoil just yet. Creating a new soundmix allowed me to slightly alter the dialogue without quality loss, so that these scenes fit in a new context. 

I have also rewritten many of the scenes in black speech, changing the subtitles. This allowed for a complete restructuring of the Dol Guldor plotline to fit a two-film structure, and it is now a little bit closer to Tolkien lore.

I also aimed to create two films that would work better as a prequel to The Lord of the Rings, creating both techniqually and thematically a more unified experience. Not only do the films focus more on character and on the themes of the three films that follow it, I've also used a color correction much more akin to The Lord of the Rings. The editing too is more in line with the original trilogy. Where The Lord of the Rings tends to stay with one storyline for multiple scenes, creating longer sequences with small arcs to invest in, the hobbit trilogy tends to cut much more between storylines, something many current hollywood films tend to do now. In my edit these longer sequences can be found too, especially in the second film, hopefully allowing for greater audience investment.

Of course you will have to be the judge on all that, to see if it actually worked. :)
 
Wow this looks really good. I thought about doing one of these but felt (rather like Jackson) that there was too much stuff for 2 films only. I was wondering at what point in the story did you decide to split the movies? Because I know in the original it was supposed to be Bard's silhouette with the bow and arrow threatening the company, but something didn't feel right to me about ending the first film in a cliff-hanger. Especially if you've been with the company in this relentless adventure and you never get a proper closure in their first film.
 
krlozdac said:
Wow this looks really good. I thought about doing one of these but felt (rather like Jackson) that there was too much stuff for 2 films only. I was wondering at what point in the story did you decide to split the movies? Because I know in the original it was supposed to be Bard's silhouette with the bow and arrow threatening the company, but something didn't feel right to me about ending the first film in a cliff-hanger. Especially if you've been with the company in this relentless adventure and you never get a proper closure in their first film.

Well, I felt there was not realy anything wrong with a cliffhanger, but the scene as it is presented would be a strange ending for a movie. I assume they reshot part of it, since it now was in the middle of the second film, and so it doesn't play as an ending, I would say. It is the final scene of the company in the first film, but it is not the final scene in the film. Furthermore, the scene is played just beyond the cliffhanger moment. This way, it doesn't feel like a forced ending.

I looked at the ending of The Two Towers for inspiration for the ending. I felt that film both really finished several story arcs and character arcs by the end of the film, only hinting at what was to come after the ending was well established. The cliffhanger of our heroes looking towards mordor and then gollum hatching his plan to lead them to Shelob only works because before those scenes the film actually has a great climax of its own. I think that is my biggest problem with Desolation of Smaug. Yes, it has a lot of action in its final act, but very little story and character arcs actually conclude in this film. When it then ends on three seperate cliffhangers, it feels like the film is robbed of a resolution of its own. Because of that, I have shifted many storylines around so that the first film, The Gathering of the Clouds, actually has many of its arcs completed in the final act; The mystery of Dol Guldor, The line of Durin, the relationship between Bilbo & Thorin, The fate of the seventh dwarven ring, .... All these questions get raised in the course of the film, and are all answered in its final act. The second film, There and Back Again, then raises new themes and questions. This will hopefully allow both films to stand on their own. If it all worked out as well as I hope, that is. :)
 
This sounds really cool. I've been waiting for someone to attempt a version that somewhat matches the original two-part vision of the movies.

I actually did take a few ideas from the original vision of the films when I made my edit. Such as I moved the flashback to the Battle of Azanulbizar so that Balin tells Bilbo that story right before they enter Mirkwood (apparently the original two film plan was to have it be told at Beorn's house, but I don't have the footage for that. I tried to place it right before the journey to Beorn's house, to imply it was told on the Carrock, but there were ponies in too many shots so it didn't work). For the end of Part One, I cut to black (with the book noise from the end of Desolation of Smaug) right when Bard shot the arrow at the dwarves, and then slowly faded to the "Smaug Eye" scene from the end of Unexpected Journey. I don't know how your version is going to attempt the rearranged timeline and the new stopping point, but I'm looking forward to it nonetheless.
 
moviefan95 said:
This sounds really cool. I've been waiting for someone to attempt a version that somewhat matches the original two-part vision of the movies.

I actually did take a few ideas from the original vision of the films when I made my edit. Such as I moved the flashback to the Battle of Azanulbizar so that Balin tells Bilbo that story right before they enter Mirkwood (apparently the original two film plan was to have it be told at Beorn's house, but I don't have the footage for that. I tried to place it right before the journey to Beorn's house, to imply it was told on the Carrock, but there were ponies in too many shots so it didn't work). For the end of Part One, I cut to black (with the book noise from the end of Desolation of Smaug) right when Bard shot the arrow at the dwarves, and then slowly faded to the "Smaug Eye" scene from the end of Unexpected Journey. I don't know how your version is going to attempt the rearranged timeline and the new stopping point, but I'm looking forward to it nonetheless.

Thank you! i myself have struggled with those scenes too, as the Azanulbizar flashback is critical, but it slows the pacing down incredibly in its original slot: there's a prologue, setting up plotlines, then the bag end sequence, setting up plotlines, then right when the adventure begins, we cut to radagast, setting up more plotlines, and then we go back to the company, but again with a flashback that sets up more plotlines. This makes the first hour and twenty minutes mostly exposition scenes, which is not what you would want. I won't spoil how and where I used the Azanulbizar scene, but it is certainly included!
 
Nice trailer. Looks like an interesting project. 

Thought about asking regarding various cuts and plot-lines, but decided that I'm curious enough about this project and would actually like to watch it without knowing too much. 

I will ask, though: what is the length of each part in your edit?
 
Belgarath said:
Nice trailer. Looks like an interesting project. 

Thought about asking regarding various cuts and plot-lines, but decided that I'm curious enough about this project and would actually like to watch it without knowing too much. 

I will ask, though: what is the length of each part in your edit?
Thank you!

I've tried not to go overboard with the length, but also made sure that the films at no point felt rushed or that parts were missing simply for timing issues. Both films are a little over three hours, about as long as the extended edition for Fellowship of the Ring.
 
AdamDens said:
I've tried not to go overboard with the length, but also made sure that the films at no point felt rushed or that parts were missing simply for timing issues. Both films are a little over three hours, about as long as the extended edition for Fellowship of the Ring.

3+ hours seems like a legit Peter Jackson movie  :D
 
Nice trailer. Do you have a edit list? I'm curious as to how you handle certain aspects of the "Tolkien Lore".
 
Would you say this is intended to be seen by a hypothetical first-time viewer before the LOTR trilogy? Or is the 'prequel' nature of the Hobbit films left as is? 
I'd also be intrigued to see a cutlist, or perhaps just to experience it myself in two weeks!
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
Nice trailer. Do you have a edit list? I'm curious as to how you handle certain aspects of the "Tolkien Lore".

I have made almost 800 cuts in total, and haven't kept a list of them. If I find the time, I might upload one in the coming weeks, though. :)
While I of course cannot alter the filmed material and can only edit it, I have tried to edit it a little bit more faithful to Tolkien lore, leaving out several aspects of the story. Other than that, I have resubtitled almost all the scenes in Black Speech, which allowed me to rewrite and alter much of the Dol Guldor plotline, and make it more faithful to the novels. In these scenes, I've added a little more references to the silmarillion. For example, Sauron now calls Gandalf Olorin, his original Maia name, and he cries out the name of Elbereth when Galadriels reveals the light of Earendil, and several other, similar changes.
 
Hal9000 said:
Would you say this is intended to be seen by a hypothetical first-time viewer before the LOTR trilogy? Or is the 'prequel' nature of the Hobbit films left as is? 
I'd also be intrigued to see a cutlist, or perhaps just to experience it myself in two weeks!

I believe the material that the original films offer limit the possibilities of a fan-edit. There is very little explanation of who Sauron is in the Hobbit films, or who the Nazgul are, etc. It seems impossible to add this in without sacrificing quality. However, I have tried to present the films not as two seperate trilogies, but one five part story. The ending of There and Back Again feels a little less like 'an ending', I would say, but more like a film that still has a sequel. Therefore, I would say some things function more as a set-up to lord of the rings, such as sauron, who's role then gets further explained in the fellowship of the ring.

I have deleted some of the more blatant references to the lord of the rings, however, since i thought that if i used them all in two films instead of three it would overdo it. Instead, I've tried to make these films stand more on their own, without too many callbacks.
 
Ok, well I'll just ask directly then ;)

When does Azog first show up?
Do you include the tree scene after Goblin town? Who is shown?
How do you transition between the films?
How much of Legolas is in the movie?
How much of the elf girl is in the movie?
How much of, if any, is Alfrid in the movie?
Do you keep the crazy huge worms or stone giants in the first movie?
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
Ok, well I'll just ask directly then ;)

When does Azog first show up?
Do you include the tree scene after Goblin town? Who is shown?
How do you transition between the films?
How much of Legolas is in the movie?
How much of the elf girl is in the movie?
How much of, if any, is Alfrid in the movie?
Do you keep the crazy huge worms or stone giants in the first movie?

Haha, okay, I'll answer these.

I've created a new sequence after Goblin town, which introduces Azog and his chase of the company. This way the beginning of the film isn't bogged down by starting all the storylines one after another, and the film doesn't loose it's pace. Sadly, this meant that the 'out of the frying pan' scene had to go, but it was needed to make the film flow.

Legolas is in both films, but his screentime is much more limited. Tauriel is included, but her romance with Kili isn't. Her role too is much more limited. The same is true for Alfrid. He's in the film, but his role is much smaller.

The stone giants scene is in the film, but it is cut down and is much more like the book. The wereworms are still in the film, as leaving them out makes the arrival of the Orc armies pretty jarring and nonsensical. The whole battle has been completely re-edited, and is very different. It has a much more serious tone, and is more character focussed. In this new context, I feel the wereworms work well, as they are ppretty much the only over the top element in the battle.
 
Thanks for answering the questions :)

AdamDens said:
Sadly, this meant that the 'out of the frying pan' scene had to go
What exactly requires it to be removed? It seems like it could be a fine entrance for Azog?

The same is true for Alfrid. He's in the film, but his role is much smaller.
What role does he play?

I feel the wereworms work well, as they are pretty much the only over the top element in the battle.

I can think of a few moments ;)
tumblr_ntowdpq9HL1rega6co9_540.gif
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
Thanks for answering the questions :)

AdamDens said:
Sadly, this meant that the 'out of the frying pan' scene had to go
What exactly requires it to be removed? It seems like it could be a fine entrance for Azog?

The same is true for Alfrid. He's in the film, but his role is much smaller.
What role does he play?

I feel the wereworms work well, as they are pretty much the only over the top element in the battle.

I can think of a few moments ;)
tumblr_ntowdpq9HL1rega6co9_540.gif
I think I have edited the 'out of the frying pan' scene in about 6 different ways, and while the scene tended to work on its own, it never worked when I watched the film as a whole. As an introduction for Azog it doesn't work, because I wanted the Azanulbizar scene later in the film, because it slows the plot down in its original place. So it would be the first time Azog is seen. Either you include the reaction Thorin has on finding out he is alive, by which you alienate the audience from the character, because one of your protagonists clearly has an emotional reaction, but you do not yet understand his motivation. Or you do not include Thorin's reaction and later introduce Azog and Thorin's history, at which point the audience will wonder why Thorin didn't react emotionally before. But beyond the introduction of Azog, following an action scene like Goblin Town with another action scene directly afterwards just felt like a buildup towards a climax, no matter how I edited it. Since the film I made continues for another hour or so, the film always felt like it completely stopped and then restarted at Beorn's house, instead of having a continuous pace.

Alfred is mostly there as a side character. His whole story arc, about his cowardly ways and his obsession with gold has been cut. He merely serves as the assistent to the master of laketown, and has 2 or 3 conversations with Bard, where Bard shows his growing leadership.

And I know there are several other over the top elements in the original battle, but most of these have been cut out in my edit. :p
 
Aaaaaand I've lost all interest. Any Alfrid, at all, is too much Alfrid.

Joking of course. (Kinda. I honestly think he's worse than Jar Jar) I'm guessing you mostly trimmed back his stuff from BotFA. Have you kept him around after the fall of Laketown? I know some editors have him killed off with the Master.
 
Back
Top Bottom