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The Red Book of Westmarch, Book III-The Treason of Isengard


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What is it about? The third of a six-part edit made to bring Peter Jackson's adaptations of "The Lord of the Rings" as close as possible to the original book by J.R.R. Tolkien, this covers the first half of "The Two Towers".
Original film name: The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
New film name: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings: Book III - The Treason of Isengard
Film studio name: New Line Cinema
Edit crew name: kerr
Date original film was released: 2002
Date edit was released: March 2009
Original runtime: 223 minutes
New runtime: 109 minutes
Amount of time cut/added: approx. 144 minutes cut, 30 minutes added (10 min. from FotR, 20 min. from RotK)


- New title sequence.
- The edit begins with Aragorn facing off against the Uruk-Hai on Amon Hen, and we see the entire fight sequence at Parth Galen (with Frodo's appearances cut)
- "The Two Towers" title added over an overhead shot of Uruk-Hai storming down towards Boromir.
- Most shots of hobbits throwing rocks have been cut.
- Aragorn's fight with Lurtz is shortened - Lurtz doesn't lick his own blood off Aragorn's dagger, nor does he pull Aragorn's sword deeper into his own stomach.
- Removed any mention of Aragorn letting Frodo go during Boromir's death scene - as in the book, Aragorn never encountered Frodo.
- Cut Aragorn's line "I do not know what strength is in my blood".
- The three hunters run into the woods, and we cut to the running montage from TTT, with "Book III - The Treason of Isengard" title added. We follow Aragorn and co., without seeing what's going on with Merry and Pippin (yet).
- Gimli's goofiness has ben cut throughout.
- All the scenes in Isengard have been cut.
- Cut Legolas' "The red sun rises... Blood has been spilled this night." It's a good line, but too confusing, since we don't know about the battle at this point in the edit.
- The scenes in Rohan (Eomer's banishment etc.) have been cut. Sadly, I couldn't get these scenes to fit anywhere. (Also, they're not in the book.)
- The three hunters find the orc pyre, and Aragorn tracks the hobbits (shortened, and with the intercut hobbit footage removed). After Gimli's "Fangorn... What madness drove them in there?" we jump back in time to the hobbits being carried by the Uruk-Hai. We now follow the hobbits exclusively until otherwise noted. The orcs are attacked, and the hobbits escape and meet Treebeard.
- All the Treebeard scenes have been rearranged and recut extensively to better link the various scenes.
- Several cuts made to the first Treebeard scene. Merry says that they're hobbits earlier, and Treebeard believes him. The scene ends with "I am on nobody's side, because nobody is on my side. Nobody cares for the woods anymore."
- After this we cut to Treebeard saying how the trees have grown wild and dangerous The scene continues with him talking about how they lost the entwives, after which...
- ...Treebeard starts to sing "The Dreams of Trees". Just as he finishes his song ("...and say my land is best.") we cut to...
- ...the destruction caused to Fangorn by Saruman. Treebeard yells out in anger, and we cut to...
- ...Treebeard talking about how Saruman once used to walk in his woods. They spot Saruman's army marching out from Isengard, and we cut to...
- ...Treebeard laying the hobbits to sleep, as he says that he has "business in the forest" etc. Cut to...
- ...Treebeard and the hobbits arrive at the entmoot. "Now we must decide if the ents will go to war", says Treebeard, and we cut to...
- ...Pippin struggling not to fall asleep. "You can't take forever!" says Merry. "Don't be hasty", replies Treebeard. Cut to...
- ...Pippin tries to convince Merry to return to the Shire. "There won't be a Shire," says Merry. Cut to...
- ...Treebeard turns to face them. "We have just agreed." As in the book, the entmoot decides to fight. This line cuts to...
- ...The huorns starting to move.
- The ents march for Isengard, and we cut back to Aragorn and co. searching for the hobbits in Fangorn. Again, we now follow them until otherwise noted.
- Cut Gimli's line about squirrel droppings.
- Elvish subtitle changed from "Something's out there" to "Aragorn, something is out there".
- The flashback to the battle agains the balrog has been extended with the part that opens the original film.
- Shortened Gandalf's talk about the ents waking up. Most of that information is redundant at this point.
- Shortened Gandalf and Aragorn's nighttime talk in the plains of Rohan, to remove unnecessary dialogue and cut Gandalf calling Saruman "Sauron's puppet".
- Theoden is not possessed by Saruman, and Gandalf does not exorcise him. This causes a slight continuity error, since I've cut Gandalf casting off his cloak to reveal himself to Saruman - so in one shot, he is cloaked, and in the next he's not, although there is enough time between the two for him to theoretically have removed his cloak.
- Final word of Eowyn's dirge ("Bealo...") has been cut. It sounds like the beginning of a new verse (also when seeing the translation), so the dirge works better without it.
- Shortened the scene with Gandalf and Theoden in front of Theodred's tomb. It's a wonderful scene, but I feel that parts of it ("No parent should have to bury their child", Theoden crying) do not belong in Tolkien's Middle-Earth.
- The subplot with the Rohirric children has been cut. Since I had to cut the first part of the subplot, there was little reason to keep it at all. We now cut from Theoden mourning his son to Gandalf saying "This is but a taste of the terror Saruman will unleash" (originally referring to the attack on the children's village, now referring to Theodred's death).
- Theoden's line "I will not risk open war" has been cut.
- Theoden's line "When last I looked, Theoden, not Aragorn, was king of Rohan" has been cut. As in the book, there is no tension between Theoden and Aragorn.
- Going to Helm's Deep is not considered to be a bad idea. Although not stated explicitly, we can assume that Theoden goes to Helm's Deep to face the enemy from a more defensible location, and not to hide as in the original
- Aragorn and Eowyn's scene in the stables has been cut
- Gandalf does not specify the hour of his return.
- The scene where Eowyn gives stew to Aragorn has been shortened. To make it less obvious that Aragorn thinks the stew tastes awful, which is very out of character for him.
- The warg attack has been cut. Not in the book, and the "wargs" look nothing like the wargs described by Tolkien.
- The arrival at the Hornburg has been altered, so that we see Theoden, Gimli, Legolas and Aragorn arrive simultaneously with Eowyn.
- The children reuniting with their mother has been cut.
- Aragorn does not urge Theoden to send for help. Theoden should not, and does not, bear a grudge against Gondor.
- Legolas doesn't tell Aragorn that he must sleep.
- Legolas does not despair before the battle.
- Cut Theoden's line "How did it come to this?"
- Gimli does not try on chain mail. Stupid comedy moment. And why would he try what has to be a size XL chain mail? Besides, he was already wearing armor.
- Cut Gimli striking an orc in the groin.
- Cut the orc carrying the torch. He looks ridiculous, and I find it hard to believe that master archer Legolas was unable to bring him down. Now, it's assumed that the orcs placing the explosives lit a fuse while they were at it.
- Cut redundant multi-angle shots of the exploding wall.
- Cut Aragorn being thrown off the wall by the explosion, since he has to stay on the wall for his next appearance.
- Cut Legolas' shieldboarding trick.
- No dwarftossing.
- Trimmed the shot where the orc's giant ladders are raised. In the original shot, the ladder that Legolas shoots down was to near the wall to possibly fall in the opposite direction.
- Theoden does not despair during the battle. I've tried to make Theoden a stronger character, like in Tolkien's book.
- Legolas does not shoot a dead in a futile attempt to raise his "orc-slaying" score. Stupid comedy moment that doesn't fit Legolas' character. Also, I'm not sure if people in Middle-Earth knew what a nervous system was.
- Cut to the flooding of Isengard, and Merry and Pippin looting Saruman's store.
- The crew rides to Isengard, and they reunite with Merry and Pippin.
- Cut Gimli's "Salted pork...?"
- The subplot with having to discover where the final battle will take place has been removed, since it makes absolutely no sense. Gondor has two major cities - Minas Tirith and Osgiliath, one of which has been attacked already. Gandalf, and everybody else, should know what Sauron's next move will be.
- Cut Gandalf's reaction shot after Grima stabs Saruman. His expression doesn't really fit, and cutting it makes Legolas react a bit faster.
- Cut Aragorn hesitating before drinking after Theoden's "Hail the victorious dead!"
- The drinking game has been cut. Pointless comedy.
- Theoden does not doubt himself during the celebration at Edoras. Again, to make Theoden a stronger character.
- Gandalf and Aragorn's conversation during the feast ends with Gandalf's "Do we know that?". I hate how PJ always tries to make Aragorn wiser than Gandalf, so I cut Aragorn's words of consolation here.
- Pippin does not "catch a glimpse of Sauron's plan" in the Palantir.
- Theoden does not question why Rohan should come to Gondor's aid.
- Cut Gandalf's line "Three days ride, as the Nazgul flies." 1, it's a weird thing to say, 2, Nazgul can't fly, 3, the Nazgul's "fell beasts" haven't been introduced yet.
- Gandalf and Pippin ride for Minas Tirith. Fade to "End of Book III".

Intention for this fanedit: To separate Peter Jackson's "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy into six parts that adhere as closely as possible to the six books of J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings". This is done by both restructuring the films to match the narrative structure found in Tolkien's book, and by removing as much as possible of the material that has no basis in Tolkien's vision of Middle-Earth. For Book III, this has meant removing all of Frodo and Sam's storyline from the film, adding in footage from FotR and RotK, removing most of Saruman's scenes, change Theoden's character to make him more noble, removing the elves from the Battle of the Hornburg, completely reinventing Treebeard's scenes, plus lots and lots of various other changes.

Software used:
- Adobe Premiere Pro CS4
- Adobe After Effects CS4
- Adobe Photoshop CS4
- Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD
- AutoGK

Additional comments: Once again, and more than ever for this particular instalment: This fanedit primarily intended for fans of Tolkien's work. Its intention is not to improve the films in and of themselves, and viewers unfamiliar with the book will probably be left confused and unsatisfied, and would be better off watching the originals. Several continuity issues have arisen when editing the film, some minor, some major - if you can't live with that, don't bother watching this.

Release info:
109 min. PAL XVID
2.0 stereo, 192 kbps MP3

Maybe downloadable from Fanedit.info
awesome! congrats on finishing :)

i look forward to the ntsc dvd
While this is, I'd say, the first one in Kerr's edit series that could in no way pass as a commercial film release - If I would see this in theatre, I would be pretty irked by the many minor and even some major continuity errors and obvious problems in overall flow and construction - I can still hail this as a great fanedit. Maybe Adywan could have rotoscoped all elves at Helm's Deep into Rohirric soldiers, but such things are certainly beyond anything we can expect from a normal faneditor. So here and from now on the material Kerr is working on differs more and more from the book, and needed alterations can not be as polished as before. That's a fact the viewer must live with. But in my opinion it was not too hard. If one is just able not to gawk at Aragorn's suddenly torn clothes or wonder how exactly the Fangorn scenes tie chronologically with scenes in Rohan, this still feels like a movie and not a mish-mash of unrelated scenes and discontinuities it could have been in the hands of worse editor.

If one is interested in the overall idea Kerr is following, to restructure the films in accordance with the books, not to create better movies in themselves but new experiences altogether, I really recommend watching this. It is well worth it. :)

However, if you just wanted better LotR films and did like Kerr's first two edits... It might be you are not so happy with this - if you cannot change your mind and see this from a different angle.
Thanks for the nice review, Haltiamieli. Also, since I forgot to mention this earlier: Haltiamieli was kind enough to test-screen this edit - so if you guys like it, he deserves some of the credit (and if you don't, you would probably have liked it even less without his input).

As for the DVD version, it's finished and in the process of being uploaded. It's the same cut as the XVID version, which I'm (so far) very satisfied with. Because of the length of the edit I decided not to include any extras this time in order to keep the video quality as good as possible, but I did include the usual animated menu and chapter selection. I did have to shrink the DVD (to about 85%) in order to fit it on a single layer DVD, but I also used slightly different settings when converting from PAL to NTSC, so I think the overall quality is just as good as the first two "Books". The audio bitrate is also higher on this one, since the 2.0 audio for TTT and RotK is 256kbps (whereas FotR only had 192kbps). The upload is about 1/4 complete - it should be finished by Monday at the latest.
Some comments on the review Sunarep posted on fanedit.org:

Enjoyed it very very much, good work and it offers a new perspective on the two towers.

Contrary it shows why Jackson made some of the changes from the book in order to tell the story properly - but this is no criticism of the fan-edit, as the editor is aware of this and only intends to shed adifferent light on the movie - in which he succeeds.
Yeah, one of the most interesting aspects on working on this has been the discovery of why PJ made some of the creative decisions he did. For example, ending the film after the Battle of the Hornburg, and not including the heroes confronting Saruman. Before I did this edit, I thought that was a stupid decision on PJ's part, but I've now realized that the film (as it was shot, anyway) does work better when it ends after the battle. Some of PJ's decisions, of course, still make no sense - elves at Helm's Deep? The warg attack? Gah!

Some transitions were quite odd because in the original movie the ent/frodo scenes were intercut so the editor had a very tough job to do - a lot of those things could be just smoothened for example the finale off helms deep: it is an epic scene when the rohirrim appear and the music is breathtaking its so exciting after having feared for the characters - in the movie we cut to sam, the edit cuts to the fleeing Uruks, which from a visual standpoint is very logical - but the music shifts too abruptly. Maybe tighten Gandalfs battle in the hordes of uruks so you can use the finale of the epic "riding down the uruks"-music in the scene where the uruks flee from helms deep (Maybe reinserting Theoden exclaiming victory?)
Yeah, that audio transition was really tricky to work with. I don't think the transition is abrupt - there's actually a rather long crossfade there - it's the fact that the two musical cues don't mesh really well at all. I felt I couldn't really trim any of the battle footage, since that would make it too short. I tried using Theoden's "Victory!, but the music there doesn't mesh either. I also couldn't extend the first musical cue, since it segues into the music of the ents attacking Isengard (which would be repeated a minute or so later). So yes, it's a rather bad audio transition (though not the worst one, in my opinion).

The ent scenes should be a little smoothed to - maybe adding different fangorn/forrest shots so that the audience has time to recognize a scenetransition.
I'm pretty sure I used all the available forest shots. I wish there were more available, but as far as I can tell, there isn't.

in the original movie the scene goes into another one and then returns to merry and pippin, so the editor has to take out the part where the music/noise overlaps into the next scene - this results for example into an abrupt cut from the flooded orthanc to merry and pippin already starting to talk - this is to fast - maybe a shot from return of the king with the ents walking around would give a little space to catch a breath
Actually, in that particular case, I didn't have to trim any of the video in order to do the audio transition. But you're right, it's a very abrupt cut. I wish there was something I could place between the two scenes, but there isn't. I could, of course, intercut it with Aragorn and co. riding through Fangorn, but to me, that just wouldn't feel right.

And finally,
Thanks! :)
Once again Kerr -you've proved you have a nice mastery of audio and video editing - none of that is in question here - 10/10.

I made the following comments after watching:

- The Two Towers credit seems to come in at an odd time, I wasn't expecting it there and then felt it was too long before the 'Book 3' credit came up.

- Really liked the way Aragorn kills Boromir's killer. Didn't feel OTT here.

- Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli's run is good, but then it appears to be getting dark - next frame it's light again. Kinda went 'huh?'. But the real issue I had with this scene was A, L and G at the edge of Fangorn and then we cut straight back to the Uruks being 'alive' again - a flashback scene that doesn't really feel like that. Just a suggestion and I don't know if it would work - but could you work the Uruk scene straight after A,L and G running as dusk? Kill two bird with one stone etc.

- Treebeard immediately discovering the work of Saruman took me by surprise and did feel a little out of place, but it did work with your rearranged sequence. I felt there was a bit of a quick cut after Treebeard says "We never say anything....a long time to say...".

- Nice work on removal of Theodens 'possession'. That worked perfectly.

- Gandalf leaving seems a bit abupt. Where's he going? What's he doing?

- Aragorn arriving with the people to Rohan was a nice touch. His sleeves are torn - yea, well. So what.

- No elves at Helms Deep - splendid. Also, the battle starts straight away - no stupid old man who can't hold a bow for a few minutes.

- There was one quick cut that I noted. After the trees kill the Orcs, there was a quick cut to Aragorn and Eowyn which felt a bit out of place.

- The Ents battle felt a bit like it started too late in.

Aside the above, I still enjoyed the film immensely. I think the issue of whether it could be a standalone is a bit of a non-starter - this is book 3. You wouldn't start a trilogy in the middle would you?!?!(Oh, unless you're George Lucas) :roll:

Well done again.
Thanks for the comments, white43!

white43 said:
Once again Kerr -you've proved you have a nice mastery of audio and video editing - none of that is in question here - 10/10.
Thanks! :)

white43 said:
- The Two Towers credit seems to come in at an odd time, I wasn't expecting it there and then felt it was too long before the 'Book 3' credit came up.
I struggled a bit with the title placements for this one. I originally had the TTT title over the three hunters running, and the "Book III" title over the pan over the orcs. I then decided that they would come up too late, and that at least the TTT should come somewhere in the Parth Galen sequence, so it would feel more like it was part of a cohesive whole, and not just the leftovers from FotR. Unfortunately there aren't any really good "title spots" in the Parth Galen sequence, so it sort of had to place it where it currently is. I would like to have it a bit earlier, but that was unfortunately not possible, and I didn't want to have it any later. Like in the first two books I decided to have the "Book III" title come up after the intro sequence (in Book I it was after "Concerning Hobbits", in Book II it was after the Saruman flashback), so it felt natural to have it over the running sequence.

- Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli's run is good, but then it appears to be getting dark - next frame it's light again. Kinda went 'huh?'. But the real issue I had with this scene was A, L and G at the edge of Fangorn and then we cut straight back to the Uruks being 'alive' again - a flashback scene that doesn't really feel like that. Just a suggestion and I don't know if it would work - but could you work the Uruk scene straight after A,L and G running as dusk? Kill two bird with one stone etc.
Sure, I could do it like that, and it was done like that in the original version, but then I wouldn't be following the book's structure, which would kinda defeat the purpose of these edits.

- Nice work on removal of Theodens 'possession'. That worked perfectly.
Glad you liked it, and managed to overlook the obvious continuity error. Haltiamieli deserves some credit for this scene - he persuaded me to reinsert "I release you from the spell" (not in the book, but necessary for the scene to work) and pointed out another continuity error that I was able to fix.

- There was one quick cut that I noted. After the trees kill the Orcs, there was a quick cut to Aragorn and Eowyn which felt a bit out of place.
Funny, that's the second time someone's reacted to that. The cut was, in fact, not done by me. In the theatrical version the shot of Aragorn and Eowyn was part of the "Tales that really matter" montage; for the extended edition, it was moved to its current place (although it was probably originally shot for an earlier version of Aragorn returning to Helm's Deep after the warg attack).

- The Ents battle felt a bit like it started too late in.
I originally had it even later, as a flashback after the hobbits reunite with Aragorn and co., as it is in the book. That didn't work well at all, so I took some creative liberty and moved it a bit earlier. Not entirely true to the book, but close enough, I think. If the scene had been placed any earlier, I would have to intercut the two storylines, which I felt would be too great a deviation from the book.
kerr said:
Yeah, one of the most interesting aspects on working on this has been the discovery of why PJ made some of the creative decisions he did. For example, ending the film after the Battle of the Hornburg, and not including the heroes confronting Saruman. Before I did this edit, I thought that was a stupid decision on PJ's part, but I've now realized that the film (as it was shot, anyway) does work better when it ends after the battle. Some of PJ's decisions, of course, still make no sense - elves at Helm's Deep? The warg attack? Gah!

This is one of my experiences as well, the movies really started making a lot of sense once you dug into them. I also understood why a lot of good extended scenes were left out.

But the elves at Helm's Deep makes perfect movie sense. I gives the elves a sense of purpose in this movie, thus motivating the scenes were we include our very well paid actors. The effect after all the gloom is great, and could have been a great moment in the film, if they had treated it differently. My problem now is twofold - one that the elves arent nearly good enough, they should at least been allowed to slaughter a couple of thousand orcs first, and secondly that once the battle is over no one cares. Immortal beings just gave their lives en masse for us, but do we care? Nah.

So my issue is with how it was treated, not them showing up in the first place.

Of course it's waaaaay off from the book.
I agree that having elves at Helm's Deep gives the elves a sense of purpose in the movie, but I feel that this could, and should, have been handled differently. How? I'd suggesting introducing Elrond's sons, Elladan and Elrohir, in FotR, and have them show up in RotK with Anduril, the Dunedain and a battalion of elves - and then having them fight at Pelennor. The Army of the Dead could probably be cut completely. This, I feel, would be much more powerful, and much truer to Tolkien's book - having elves at Helm's Deep just presents way too many problems to be worthwhile.

Among other things, the inclusion of the elves at Helm's Deep greatly simplifies the political geography of Middle-Earth, by condensing "elves" and "men" into just two categories. Rohan did, of course, not take part in the Last Alliance - but Haldir and his elves still decide to help them at Helm's Deep to "honor that alliance".

Also, I feel that the elves really diminish PJ's version of Aragorn - "The Two Towers" is where he should start to realize that it is his destiny to be a leader of men, but then at Helm's Deep PJ shows him lead a battalion of... elves.

Also, as you mention, the elves are last seen when everybody is retreating into the Hornburg, after which they've all disappeared entirely, and never mentioned again. My guess is that there was originally some footage of the elves after the battle, but that this included Arwen, who was cut from Helm's Deep (thank god).

This, and several other things I've noticed while editing, reinforce my belief that these films were very much shaped in editing and pickup shoots. For example, the editing in these films is, if you look closely, actually pretty sloppy - there are a few actual jump cuts, and many that aren't, but feel like they are. I can't believe that RotK won the oscar for best editing... This does make my job easier, though, since I can more easily "get away with murder", so to speak, editing-wise.
The DVD version is up on rapidshare. Details:

NTSC Single Layer DVD
256kbps Dolby AC-3 2.0
approx. 109 minutes
4,35 GB
I could not enjoy the DVD on my flatscreen TV, because it had heavy interlacing problems and was blurry in scenes of stron movement (the fighting scenes). I checked it on my computer with power dvd, where the interlacing does not show, but the blurring is still present.

On powerDVD, vlc and mpc the DVD plays quite fine, but that's unfortunately not how I like to watch movies. If others experience the same issues they should report here, so kerr knows about it.

(edited by boon23 after checking that the original DVDs have the same blurring indeed)
I think you (Kerr, that is) said that this was about to be redone. Is this the case? Should I wait for it? :)
I'm pretty sure that he is re-doing BOTH Books III and IV - after already redoing I and II :)
Thanks. That's what I thought. I have the new versions of I and II (and will download V and VI soon). Can't wait to get the whole thing! I'd like to show it to a friend of mine who has no prior LotR experience - and who hates 4 hour movies in general.

I love the mini-series format. The Red Book of Westmarch: the mini-series will be (I'm at least 90% percent sure) my preferred version in the future.
Yep, I'm redoing both III and IV. There aren't any really major changes, but in my opinion, the new version of Book III is quite a big improvement over the old one, so I would suggest waiting for it. I'll be interested in hearing what you (and your friend) think of Book III, since there's quite a bit of stuff in that one that doesn't make much sense unless you're familiar with the book. I'm glad you enjoyed the first two edits, and hope you'll enjoy the rest of them as well! :)
Jeez, the gods of fanediting must really not want me to finish these new versions... I think everything is done, I convert the video, I create the DVD and sit down to watch it - only to find that some tiny bit of audio is missing, out of sync, or otherwise needs improvement. That's happened three times so far! Well, I'm giving it another go, and hopefully fourth time's the charm. So the gist is, the new version of Book III is 99% done, and, unless the gods of fanediting really have it in for me, it'll be available for download in a week's time or so at the latest.

So, what have I changed from the first version? Well, quite a bit, actually. The opening is completely different - instead of opening with Aragorn fighting the Uruk-Hai, we open with the Uruks storming down the hill towards Boromir. I guess this might be a slightly controversial change, but I like it better this way. I also did a few things with the ent scenes, and the Battle of the Hornburg has gotten a few tweaks as well. Of course, a lot of the audio transitions have been improved too, though there are still a few I'm not entirely satisfied with (nothing I can do about those). I'll post a more detailed list of changes soon.
I feel your pain. I've been working on a revision of my LOTR edits too. And I know Womble would rather have me dead. You really have to beat that crappy program into submission before it'll cooperate in the slightest.
What version of Womble are you using?

I've found that newer versions seem to ignore some things you do.....in a couple cases I've had to go back to an older version.
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